Looking for better camera setup

[klerg]

Hello

I currently have some Foscam FI8910W and FI9831W cameras. The main issue with them is too many false alarm e-mails. The motion detection sets off from wind and light changes. I've read that passive infrared (PIR) sensor cameras only pick up bodily movement. I want to get an NVR or DVR system, but wondering which camera brands have PIR sensors?

Thanks a lot

 

[fenderman]

Hello

I currently have some Foscam FI8910W and FI9831W cameras. The main issue with them is too many false alarm e-mails. The motion detection sets off from wind and light changes. I've read that passive infrared (PIR) sensor cameras only pick up bodily movement. I want to get an NVR or DVR system, but wondering which camera brands have PIR sensors?

Thanks a lot

Welcome to the forum..you will only find PIR sensors in VERY expensive outdoor cameras...for indoor cameras you can look at the hikvision 2432 cube or its 1080p variant...
Many outdoor cameras have an alarm in where you can use your own pir sensor to trigger alarms..
The problem is that you may miss motion that is further away but still may be important...you can use software like blue iris to record everything but only alert on motion..

 

[klerg]

Welcome to the forum..you will only find PIR sensors in VERY expensive outdoor cameras...for indoor cameras you can look at the hikvision 2432 cube or its 1080p variant...
Many outdoor cameras have an alarm in where you can use your own pir sensor to trigger alarms..
The problem is that you may miss motion that is further away but still may be important...you can use software like blue iris to record everything but only alert on motion..

Appreciate the welcome. What brand of outdoor camera has PIR sensor? Is the alarm on the DVR/NVR or the camera itself, and what does it look like? And how can the PIR sensor attach to the alarm? Do you mean the PIR sensor only works at close range? Will it detect someone from over 25 feet away? Is blue iris able to only send e-mails when a person walks by? I'll try blue iris and see if it helps.

 

[fenderman]

Appreciate the welcome. What brand of outdoor camera has PIR sensor? Is the alarm on the DVR/NVR or the camera itself, and what does it look like? And how can the PIR sensor attach to the alarm? Do you mean the PIR sensor only works at close range? Will it detect someone from over 25 feet away? Is blue iris able to only send e-mails when a person walks by? I'll try blue iris and see if it helps.

Mobotix- you are talking 1000 dollar cameras..
there is an alarm input on the camera itself, you have to run wire from the pir sensor to the camera, you also have to run power to the pir sensor.
Most detectors will be fine a 25f, you need to look at the specs...look at optex brand.

 

[klerg]

Mobotix- you are talking 1000 dollar cameras..
there is an alarm input on the camera itself, you have to run wire from the pir sensor to the camera, you also have to run power to the pir sensor.
Most detectors will be fine a 25f, you need to look at the specs...look at optex brand.

Yes, on the website of Mobotix I saw one for $800. Which brand of outdoor camera has input for alarm, and what happens when its triggered? I mean, after its hooked up, is anything else that needs to be done for it to work? On website of Optex, there's no instructions on how to connect any PIR sensor to a camera. Is anyway to make blue iris send e-mails only when someone walks by?

 

[fenderman]

You need a camera with an alarm input not output.. If it has one then it will generally have the other.. Look at hikvision..
Blue iris does not have people detection.. But you can adjust the motion detection to be very accurate if you read the help file.. Blue iris also supports the sea-level 120e which allows the use of a pir sensor to trigger recording..
There are some threads that discuss hooking up pir sensor to hikvision cameras that support alarm in.. You need to start reading them..
Sighthound has technology that detects people, but i dont know how accurate it is..remember that sometimes you want to capture a car etc...

 

[klerg]

I will be looking for an alarm input and output on any outdoor camera to see what it looks like. What is sea-level 120e supposed to mean? I could only find one thread on how to hook up PIR sensor to a Hikvision camera here it is, if you know of others, please post them. Sighthound Video has a free trial with a lot of features, but I prefer something that is open source. Yes, I may need to capture a car from time to time, and severe wind is good to notice. However, one thing I never need to be alerted on is lighting changes. That is, when it's dawn and dusk, I get e-mail when it's not necessary. So, I guess whatever software I end using must ignore changes in lighting via a filter setting.

 

[fenderman]

I will be looking for an alarm input and output on any outdoor camera to see what it looks like. What is sea-level 120e supposed to mean? I could only find one thread on how to hook up PIR sensor to a Hikvision camera here it is, if you know of others, please post them. Sighthound Video has a free trial with a lot of features, but I prefer something that is open source. Yes, I may need to capture a car from time to time, and severe wind is good to notice. However, one thing I never need to be alerted on is lighting changes. That is, when it's dawn and dusk, I get e-mail when it's not necessary. So, I guess whatever software I end using must ignore changes in lighting via a filter setting.

You will not find good vms software that is open source..google sea-level 120e
that thread has all the images and info you need. If you are expecting some advanced analytics on 100 dollar cameras or free software, just give up now...

 

[klerg]

You will not find good vms software that is open source..google sea-level 120e
that thread has all the images and info you need. If you are expecting some advanced analytics on 100 dollar cameras or free software, just give up now...

If the vms software does what I need and is open source, then its good for me. I do not expect 100 dollar cameras to match what a high-level Mobotix can do. Just want to push the envelope and see how much I get out of the Foscams.

 

[fenderman]

If the vms software does what I need and is open source, then its good for me. I do not expect 100 dollar cameras to match what a high-level Mobotix can do. Just want to push the envelope and see how much I get out of the Foscams.

That's my point no free software will do what you need.. Give up on that idea.. Mobotix cameras are not all that good... They just happen to build the pir sensor in the camera.. You can build your own system with better pir sensors, mounted in optimal locations (often not the same location as the camera) for a fraction of the cost... But you will need to spend money.. If you fine tune blue iris you can get an almost perfect solution for 60.

 

[klerg]

That's my point no free software will do what you need.. Give up on that idea.. Mobotix cameras are not all that good... They just happen to build the pir sensor in the camera.. You can build your own system with better pir sensors, mounted in optimal locations (often not the same location as the camera) for a fraction of the cost... But you will need to spend money.. If you fine tune blue iris you can get an almost perfect solution for 60.

That being the case, I'd still like someone else to chime in here. I do not think Mobotix is the only provider of cameras with PIR sensors built-in, do you know of others? It might be cheaper to build my own setup, but it's more of a pain to hook up camera and PIR sensor together; it's much better to have cameras with them inside already. I wish blue iris was open source, and will look for something that is, even if its not free.

 

[fenderman]

That being the case, I'd still like someone else to chime in here. I do not think Mobotix is the only provider of cameras with PIR sensors built-in, do you know of others? It might be cheaper to build my own setup, but it's more of a pain to hook up camera and PIR sensor together; it's much better to have cameras with them inside already. I wish blue iris was open source, and will look for something that is, even if its not free.

Why do you care if its open source? How does open source code help you?
Ispy is open source (but he charges a monthly fee for alerts and remote access)..and its not nearly as versatile as blue iris. Zoneminder is open source, its supper clunky and runs on linux.
It is not better to have the PIR sensor in the camera, you are better off having an independent pir sensor. This way you can mount it in an optimal place, get a MUCH better sensor than those found on cameras and better integrate them with vms without relying on camera firmware/alarm outs.
It will be better and cheaper to pay a professional to run the cable for a pir sensor then to get one built into the camera. You dont even need a camera with alarm in, you can use the sealevel 120e to integrate the PIR sensor in blue iris. If you plan on getting a camera with a pir sensor, you need to make sure that your VMS software can read the alarm and trigger recording of that camera and maybe others.
Vivotek and avtech both have cameras with PIR sensors but i believe they are indoor rated...you can look it up.

 

[klerg]

Why do you care if its open source? How does open source code help you?
Ispy is open source (but he charges a monthly fee for alerts and remote access)..and its not nearly as versatile as blue iris. Zoneminder is open source, its supper clunky and runs on linux.
It is not better to have the PIR sensor in the camera, you are better off having an independent pir sensor. This way you can mount it in an optimal place, get a MUCH better sensor than those found on cameras and better integrate them with vms without relying on camera firmware/alarm outs.
It will be better and cheaper to pay a professional to run the cable for a pir sensor then to get one built into the camera. You dont even need a camera with alarm in, you can use the sealevel 120e to integrate the PIR sensor in blue iris. If you plan on getting a camera with a pir sensor, you need to make sure that your VMS software can read the alarm and trigger recording of that camera and maybe others.
Vivotek and avtech both have cameras with PIR sensors but i believe they are indoor rated...you can look it up.

Open source code helps to figure out how the program works, then it's possible to edit and tweak it into a new application that does exactly what I need. I was considering ISpy, until you told me that he charges monthly for alerts and remote access. Of course, Zoneminder is only for Linux, which I'm still not too comfortable with. So, how much better is a separate PIR sensor than when it's built-in to the camera? It's not just the wiring that's the problem, but also the cameras. Since my Foscams do not alarm ports, I'd have to buy new cameras or this sealevel 120e thing you mention. By the way, I'm still not sure what that does, other than cost almost 200 bucks. I take it that blue iris has the largest support for cameras with PIR sensors, is that right? Almost all cameras with PIR sensors tend to be indoor, any idea why that's the case? Actually, I can't find any outdoor PIR camera. I thought Securityman had one but the type, make and model escape me now.

 

[fenderman]

The 120e works with blue iris and does not require a camera with a pir sensor or alarm inputs, thats the point. It allows you to trigger blue iris with a PIR sensor that is attached to the 120e...the signal is sent over the network to blue iris so you dont have to home run it.
I got mine for 50. But you can choose to buy a 1000-1500+ dollar mobotix if you wish. Mobotix makes outdoor cameras with PIR, a complete waste of money. The image is mediocre.
I dont know you, but its takes alot of skill to edit open source VMS software...you are better off with blue iris. It can do practically anything. The developer adds function all the time based on user requests. There are other VMS software that can do it as well, but they charge 100-150 PER camera for similar capabilities.
Replacing your foscams is not a bad idea though, they are junk.
So bottom line, either be prepared to spend some time and money and setup PIR, or take the time to tweak the software for 99 percent accuracy.

 

[zmx]

I find that most cams with a PIR`s fail with false alarms from wind temp shifts etc, Even good quality dual and quad sensors with pulse count have this problem.
You can get away with them in a 24x7 Aircon place with no sunlight or wind.
You need a good day-night cam or DVR with an input and then use a PIR-Microwave sensor to minimize false alarms. Or an IR beam!

Foscrap...toys! Have a look at HIKvisions gear its pretty good for the price. these units below might be a start with an 64Gb SD card version on board recording.
http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/Products_accessries_161_i4919.html

 

[hook3m]

What is you goal with motion detection? Do you only want to record when motion is detected or are you looking for a reliable alert, i.e email or audible alarm when it's detected?

 

[klerg]

I must admit it is great to have other opinions in this thread, it's like a breath of fresh air

Using the 120e with a PIR sensor means two more devices and all the cables along with it. Would love to know how you got it for 50? On Sealevel's website its about 180 bucks, that's too much for me. Still wondering how much better a standalone PIR sensor is compared to a camera with one built-in. Why do Mobotix cameras cost so much when the image quality is mediocre as you put it? Yes, it does take a lot of skill to edit any source code for that matter, but it is always a good option in the long run. The Foscams are not that bad, especially the FI9831W its picture is quite good at least in daylight. I will definitely go the software route for the short term, as its much more convenient and gives the same results as hardware.

I'm surprised that the PIR sensor cameras also have false alarms, but it is much less than the Foscams, right? If I need no sunlight, wind, and A/C conditions for PIR camera then I'm better off with what I have now. That Hikvision linked to here is Indoor camera, but I'm looking for outdoor one.

I need a reliable alert via e-mail when motion is detected.

 

[fenderman]

I got my 120e on ebay. Its all about marketing...they market their cameras well and they offer integration options..look, you are not spending 1000 on a camera right? so forget about it.
Running 2 cables vs 1 is not that much more difficult..
All you need to do is run your pir sensors to the 120e then connect the 120e to your network. Your cameras need to run back to a switch, so run an extra cable for the pir sensor and and mount the 120e near your switch. If that is too much for you, then just either live with what you have or try to fine tune motion detection with a vms, you can get high accuracy results.
If you think foscam is fine, then you haven't seen a decent camera. One of the reasons why you are having this issue is that their cameras dont support advanced motion detection like line cross or intrusion detection.
Editing open source is an option if you know what you are doing. Based on your answer, it doesnt seem like it. Why use mediocre open source software that you are never going to modify, when you have a purpose built solid package.
You need to come clean with a budget..if you expect an outdoor camera with pir for 100 you may as well give up.