IR Cut Filter stuck, Purple image - A camera orientation problem?

[Fastb]

All,

My HDBW4421E-AS dome was working fine. I used in my workroom as I tested and wrung out the system. Yesterday, I mounted the camera outside. This morning, I have very purplish image.

In researching, someone suggested the IR cut filter wasn't being moved out of the way. It's a mechanical movement. Suggestions including knocking the camera to "unstick" the IRC filter mechanism. Another suggested toggling the camera settings, going back and forth between color and b&w. Yet another suggested listening for the click when switching those modes.

I brought the camera inside. I fixed the symptom. Now I hear a pronounced click. But did I fix the root cause problem?

Someone suggested a stuck IRC filter might be related to orientation. I use this dome in a vertical orientation. When I mounted it outside yesterday, I wanted the cable to exit downwards. After screwing the base to the wall, I rotated the optics so the viewed image was level and plumb.

I rotated the front half of the "golf ball", not the whole optic assembly that is supported within a U bracket that can also be rotated. I wonder if one leveling method is better than the other?

This mechanical IRC filter mechanism, located between the lens and imager, might need to fight gravity. Does mounting orientation, or image leveling choices, increase the chance of getting a stuck IR cut filter?

Another puzzle,
~~ This morning at 10am, I started getting repeat Audio "Input Abnormal" Alarms every 10 seconds. Even with the external mic disconnected. After I brought the camera inside, I got the IRC filter to move from night position to day position. At that point, the audio "Input Abnormal" alarms went away! Maybe a struggling IRC filter solenoid was introducing noise into the audio amplifier.

The two problems appeared, and disappeared, at the same time. Too strange for a coincidence.

Last night got into the low 40's F. Dry, no rain.

Any hunches appreciated!

 

[fenderman]

You may have a power issue related to bad crimps..recrimp your ends. What brand of cable are you using?

 

[nayr]

yep, and check power source.. but sounds like low powah capt'n!

mechanisms are typically the first to show symptoms, electronics can cope better with abnormal power.

 

[pozzello]

hm. interesting observations. keep in mind the IR filter cuts out the IR light,
so it's removed for night time viewing and should be in place for daytime...

I've got a hik 2732 (VF dome) mounted to a wall that often has a purplish cast to the daytime image, compared to other cams.

similar view from a hik 2032 bullet under the eaves (up higher than the dome)

it seems to come & go as the sun moves around, so perhaps more of camera hue setting than a problem with the IR cut filter?
or maybe just soemthing the domes are subject to due to the smoked cover or reflection/refraction off the curved glass?
from what i've seen here the entire picture would be very pink/purple and not just a little discolored of the IR filter were stuck.

 

[nayr]

not nessicary, Natural IR does not reflect like visible light.. it could be stuck in the right environment hardly even be detectable... where as other environments its entirely unusable without a filter.

results will vary depending on conditions, yours could just be a simple white balance change but I doubt it the way the plants look like they are absorbing it.. thats a pretty good sign its IR and your filter is not in place.

color is just an illusion, leaves are not truly green.. they are every color BUT green, so the green spectrum of visible light is reflected instead of absorbed

 

[pozzello]

hm. my nighttime images with this cam are OK tho
(other than some slight fog due to dome bleed, i gather),

so the filter must be moving out of the way at night, right?
or maybe it's just always off and i'm lucky to have useable daytime
images with it not in place. or maybe just a white-balance setting.
anyways, it was cheap...

 

[nayr]

its likely stuck open all the time, at night you'd never notice.. in day you'd be immune mostly with so much greenery in the image.

 

[pozzello]

if you're implying i need to tend the bushes & mow the grass, touchee my friend!

 

[nayr]

hah, another possibility is it has no IR cut filter.. many cheaper ones do not, as well as indoor ones without IR of its own.. indoors windows/blinds filter out most of the IR in the day, the sun is the problem not artificial lighting.

 

[pozzello]

the hik 2732 does have an IR cut filter, per specs: http://overseas.hikvision.com/europe/Products_accessries_160_i5993.html
but that doesn't mean it's working (in this vertical orientation or at all...) thanx.

 

[Fastb]

All,

Thanks for the replies. Some additional info:

I read in the forum the IRC filter could get stuck. Troubleshooting included listen for the "click" when changing the "Day & Night" camera setting from "B/W" to "Colorful". I'd see the image switch from b&w to color (but with a purple hue). I kept toggling back and forth. Finally success! I had a non-purple color image.

Then I did the "listen" test again. NOW I heard the click I hadn't heard before. My conclusion: the IRC filter mechanism wasn't working in the new outdoor location. I installed outside Mon Eve, by Tues morning, I had the problem. This is after weeks of the cam working just fine in my indoor lab/shop staging area. What changed? I seized on mounting orientation.
@nayr, your advice is always solid. Your guidance re: "Adequate Power" got my gears re: power, not environmentals (like temp), or orientation. Personally, I'm intrigued by complications. Occam's razor can ground me in practicality. (Occam: "The simplest explanation is usually the right one")

nayr, Power was only slightly different for indoor and outdoor situations. I returned the camera inside to the inside lab/shop, and the problem persisted. (Jury is out on Occam for a moment)

My outdoor/indoor power differed only by the length of the Cat cable.
- Indoor was a purchased 3' cat 5e patch cord, 24AWG.
- Outdoor was a purchased Monopirice 50' cat 6 patch cord, 23 AWG.
- No crimps by me. Overmolded patch cords, tough to check crimps.

POE identical for both locations, connected to the same POE switch, ie: TP-LINK TL-SG1008PE 8-Port Gigabit PoE Switch,IEEE 802.3at/af, Max Output 124W.
POE switch is feeding 3 POE devices: 2 cameras, and one outdoor AP, ie: EnGenius ENS1200 Dual Band AC1200 High-powered/Long-range Wireless Outdoor AP

POE switch connections (5 total for 8 port switch):
-- Dahua NVR 4216, which is powered by a 12v DC power line. Pulling this power line kills the NVR. ie: it's not pulling power from POE switch.
-- Monprice cheapass switch
-- 802.11ac Access Point (using POE)
-- Two Dahua POE cameras (using POE)

My POE camera was connected to 48V POE ethernet indoors & outdoors.
To power the external mic, I changed the power hookup for outside. I used a wall transformer AC to DC supply. Output rated to 200ma.
Mic spec: I can't find the spec for power consumption, only specs for the p/s they provide. It's rated to 500 to 600ma. A red herring?

The mystery remains, ie:
- When I disconnected the mic, including the anemic mic p/s, the purple image and audio "Input Abnormal" alarms continued. Both indoors and out.
--- I can rule out the mic p/s change, because symptoms didn't change when the mic was completely disconnected. Indoors and out.
- When I returned the cam to my lab/shop, connected with 3' cable as before, the purple image persisted.
- Camera power cycling, after each wiring change, didn't fix symptoms.

Conclusions:
- A lurking problem remains. Root cause is undiscovered.
- I'll re-install the dome outside, to see if problem returns
- I'll check 48V poe at the camera, while it's drawing current. Tricky. I may have to check at the POE xmfr on camera pcb
- I'll check audio (again) inside before connecting audio outside (again)

Hey, I'll try to be more succinct in the future! And channel Occam!

 

[nayr]

sounds like you have flushed it out, if you really want to take it a step further take the camera apart.. the IR cut will look something like:

perhaps just taking it apart, and handling it will knock whatever's causing it to bind up loose.. but while your there take some pix, get any numbers off it you can and you might get lucky and find a cheap replacement.. they cost like $3-$4

 

[Fastb]

@nayr,

Awesome suggestion and pic.
Since I'm a newbie, I started with buying my eqpmt thru a US distributor, for the sake of warranty and support.

If the cam performance on its first night outside leads to probs (purple image, stuck IRC filter, and audio "Input Abnormal" alarms, maybe I just return the camera.

If warranty & support disappears, I'm perfectly willing to dive into the camera internals.

Your pic tells me the mechanism is based on a solenoid, not a motor (as I read in other posts). Solenoids are weak points, prone to failure, inexpensive compared to the superior solution of motors. and most damning of all, reliant on magnetic attraction.

Light illumination diminishes at the Square of the distance. 2ft away, illumination is 4x lower. Magnetism drops at the 4th power. 2ft away, magnetic power is 16x lower. Solenoids suck. Motors better. Not trying to coax a distant "core" towards the near electromagnet.

But I'll bet you knew that, dog! Thanks for humoring me!

 

[kadkam]

sounds like you have flushed it out, if you really want to take it a step further take the camera apart.. the IR cut will look something like:

perhaps just taking it apart, and handling it will knock whatever's causing it to bind up loose.. but while your there take some pix, get any numbers off it you can and you might get lucky and find a cheap replacement.. they cost like $3-$4

Where I can buy this? I need this for an Hikvision camera