General dahua and hikvision questions, along with placement and BI advice

StuG_IV

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Hello all!

I just joined this forum so that I could ask a couple questions. I've lurked here the past week reading the wiki, sticky, and icky posts all around about general camera knowledge and hardware reccomendations.

I am able to configure managed switches, vlans and vpn's and run cables both copper and fiber.

I will start by saying I will install this system at my parents house. My dad is higher than average tech savvy and can usually figure out stuff if it breaks so I figured blue iris is a great choice nonetheless, this is also because he wants to check it out as a system for another location where more than 40-50 cameras will be installed in a not too distant future (6 months circa) My questions about BI are:

  • With the proper beefy hardware is BI still reccomended for a 50 ish camera system? I was thinking of buying a good refurbished server to run those on. Would that be a waste of resources compared to other more commercial offerings or is it still in the realm of possibilities? Hoping for imput from people that have such a system either at home or in a commercial setting.

  • For a home setting with a fully enclosed metal fence (averages 1.7 meters do to local regulations) do you reccomend placing cameras facing from the house outwards or from the fence outwards? Also how much overlap do you usually plan for?


  • Dahua or hikvision? I know dahua is very well regarded here in this forum, but I have some difficulty sourcing them in italy due to long wait times or b2b distribution. I've only been able to find a couple online stores with severely marked up prices. I was lookin at this for now in order to test out the angles and positions before buying fixed lense models: IPC-HDW5231R-ZE (which I can find on IPVM but not dahua's own website curiously enough) but am open to other suggestions in the sub 180 max 200ish Euro category. I am having a hard time distinguishing between the HDW22XX series and HDW52XX series, from what I gathered the CMOS is the same? Maybe the 5x has better IR illuminators? All the advanced features I need are Perimeter and motion trigger events with very optional sd card recording of those events.


  • On the other hand I noticed hikvision have more lens size choice, I do not know how relevant that is but It might matter? Also is it true hik cameras have slightly better dark performance? What would the equivalent cam to the 22xx series and 52xx series be?


Looking forward to hearing advice from you all, thank you!
 
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:welcome:

An 8th generation or newer PC with an M2 boot drive, 256GB minimum, and room for some full sized, 3.5", platter drives for video storage with 16-32GB of memory will run 50 cameras easily if you use sub streams. That means that video will be recorded in a lower resolution until a camera is triggered then switch to high resolution for the duration of the motion. It's an acceptable compromise for24/7 recording and getting the important shots in full resolution while removing aa tremendous load from the CPU.

The difference between the 22xx and 52xx series is primarily the sensor size and resolution. Both are using the proper sensor size for their resolutions, the 22xx is a 2MP camera while the 52xx camera is 4MP camera. They are comparable in performance in low light situations which is the critical time for most video. The 54xx series does have more advanced AI than the 22xx as well as having built-in audio in the turret form factor cameras. There is the 3241T-ZAS which is in the same family as the 22xx models but has basic AI and built-in audio.

You can easily get Dahua, or Hikvision, from Andy at EmpireTech. He is a well trusted and excellent source for Dahua in particular and works with Dahua and forum members here to improve the firmware of Dahua cameras. He can ship worldwide and can probably provide excellent pricing and fast shipping for you.

Andy
IPCT Thread

Andy's Store

King Security/EmpireTech Store

Email
Andy Wang kingsecurity2014@163.com

Andy's instructional videos -

When deciding on camera placement the purpose/reason a camera is needed is the primary consideration. That said, I like to have two cameras complementing each other and watching each other. That provides overlapping coverage of the area and provides some protection for each camera since the approach to the camera is "watched" by another camera. Without a sketch or photos it's impossible to make any recommendations at all other than that generalization.

Some basics regarding cameras and links to reviews -

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
1/3" = .333" Great for 720P
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet) Great for 2MP
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball) Great for 4MP
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round) Great for 8MP

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

8MP Review

Dual Lens

5442 Reviews

3241T-ZAS Review

2231 Reviews
 

StuG_IV

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First of all I would just like to thank you for the extremely thoughtful and considerate response to my many questions.
Looks like I still have some studying ahead of me ;0

Quick question,I am pretty sure you misread but if not wouldn't the sensor be the exact same in a 22XX dahua compared to a 52xx dahua? I thought the second number was the megapixels (the 2). Snoopin around I always seem to find the same size sensor at least on what i've seen. If low light performance remains unbothered I would gladly put 5x's near doors or the gate where audio might end up being relevant rather than on the short road to the garage where the worst someone could do is steal my mothers garden rock, with no audio to compliment it. I'll have to ask andy as soon as I have drawn up a final plan.

As for the placement i have been watching a lot more content these days when I have time and I believe I will draw up some sort of drawing of the house to a reasonable degree of accuracy, find the spots where cabling the cameras is possible and maybe share it here, please do tell if I should make a different thread for camera placement advice or if I can just keep bothering everyone here.

Also, any reccomendation for pole top sfp switches? I mean something similiar to the Mikrotik powerbox pro so and sfp port or two, and poe out rj45, I can live with unmanaged if at a lower pricepoint than the mikrotik solution, I need something liek this to pole mount some cameras (I am 100 meters of cable run away so decided to run fiber)

And again, thank you for your time and knowledge, I'll start checking out this stuff as soon as I can fit it in!
 

Pogo

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Install Blue Iris on a relatively capable (i5 ~ i7) Intel machine with at least 8 meg o' RAM to get your feet wet with the platform and its capabilities for starters. Sounds like you may have access to plenty of hardware, so grab a rig, a POE switch, a couple POE cameras, hit the "What's this do?" button and jump in.

The only requirement written in stone is the more processing horsepower, the better. Blue Iris likes Intel hardware acceleration, is designed for it and uses it very well for its intended application -- managing video streams from the lens to the archive. Everything else is relative and variable -- including much of what you'll experience and read here.

Sub-streams are the main buzz word and the key to establishing processing efficiency and generally determine the number and types of cameras that can be reliably used in a given Blue Iris installation. The tradeoff in decreased processor load is that real-time viewing quality suffers greatly and needs to be considered if live multi-cam surveillance is a priority. It can all be calculated up to a point, but the more cameras, the more cumulative variation in processing will inevitably occur requiring more processing headroom -- unless they're all running at 320 x 180 at 7fps. Not exactly desirable for real-time surveillance.

Learning Blue Iris and how to manage its available hardware management resources is the key. You can read everything ever written, but until you have your hands on an even modest BI installation you won't really be able to appreciate the flexibility and capabilities of the platform -- or if it's even a realistic solution for your requirements.

If you haven't already, download the demo and get familiar with it -- from the ground up. It should all start flowing for you pretty quickly. You'll have plenty of time to worry about the best managed fiber switch to hang on a pole once you figure out what it will actually need to manage.

First things first.
 
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looney2ns

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I know this may not apply to your country, but you can find good prices on used Elitedesk Small Form Factor pcs on Ebay.
Such as:
And
 
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