Dahua Camera/NVR Question

[tdale4]

I have a Dahua NVR with 5 cameras at my house. I installed the system in 2017 and so far it's been great, still on the original hard drives I put in in 2017. My only complaint is that the cameras are not that great at night and they need cleaning after rainstorms. I've been thinking about upgrading my system with newer cameras

My current NVR is a NVR4208-8P-4KS2 and I have 5 of the 4MP Varifocal IPC-HDBW4433R-ZS cameras.

I have been looking at the newer Dual Lens IPC-HDW5449H-ASE-D2 cameras, my only concern is image ghosting/misalignment between the 2 lenses, All my cameras are outside my house under the eaves about 8 feet off the ground, I'm including a picture of my home and camera locations out front , out back I just have 2 cameras, one on each end of the house.

Another camera I'm considering is the IPC-T5442TM-AS, It looks like it has better low light ability than my current cameras and I don't really need the Varifocal lens, all my cameras are as wide as I can get them and I never use the Varifocal lens to zoom in.

And I have also been thinking maybe I should upgrade to 4K cameras, but the only reason I'd do that is if I can capture plate numbers with the camera, and I'm not sure that would be possible with the distance and angle to the road I have

Any ides if I will have to upgrade my NVR which is a NVR4208-8P-4KS2 to use newer cameras like I am considering? Looking at the specs the newer NVR4208-8P-4KS2/L it actually seems like the specs are a bit worse with "Access: 160 Mbps; Storage: 160 Mbps; Forward: 64 Mbps " vs the "200 Mbps for access, 200 Mbps for storage and 96 Mbps for forwarding" of the older NVR4208-8P-4KS2, not that I need all 200Mbps for the 5 cameras I'm running , just wondering if the newer NVR is an upgrade at all or if it's needed

Any advise for upgrading my current system would be greatly appreciated

Thanks,
TIm

 

[wittaj]

Yeah, as you found out domes are problematic outside!

Do not chase MP. There is no 4K camera on the market that will read plates at that distance. Plates are all about enough OPTICAL zoom to make the plate large enough on the screen. Provided you have the angle without a tree in the way, you would need the 5241-Z12E that has up to 64mm focal length. Capturing plates is as much an art as it is a science, and at night especially, all it does is gets plates - the image will be all black except for the plate and head/tail lights.

The newest firmware on the 5449 fixes the "misalignment". Mine is just fine.

If you have had these 5 years and it meets your needs for your intended purposes, then yeah go with a fixed lens. But looking at the placement of some of your cams, it is more for the wide overview OBSERVE versus being able to IDENTIFY a stranger.

The 5442 is still considered the overall king of the cameras and is on the proper MP/sensor ratio.

 

[tdale4]

Yeah, as you found out domes are problematic outside!

Do not chase MP. There is no 4K camera on the market that will read plates at that distance. Plates are all about enough OPTICAL zoom to make the plate large enough on the screen. Provided you have the angle without a tree in the way, you would need the 5241-Z12E that has up to 64mm focal length. Capturing plates is as much an art as it is a science, and at night especially, all it does is gets plates - the image will be all black except for the plate and head/tail lights.

The newest firmware on the 5449 fixes the "misalignment". Mine is just fine.

If you have had these 5 years and it meets your needs for your intended purposes, then yeah go with a fixed lens. But looking at the placement of some of your cams, it is more for the wide overview OBSERVE versus being able to IDENTIFY a stranger.

The 5442 is still considered the overall king of the cameras and is on the proper MP/sensor ratio.

Do you like your 5449 cameras better than the 5442? Just wondering if they are that much better and worth the extra cost.

I figured Plate Capture was not gonna be in my future, and without it I just don't see what 4K cameras would give me and I don't want night video to be compromised by the smaller pixels of a 4K camera

Do you see any issue with me keeping my current DVR, I'm just not sure what I gain by going with the newer /L version of the NVR I have.

 

[wittaj]

I love the 5449 - it fills a nice niche problem area very well.

Because of the larger F-stop and dual lens, the ability to get color images is far darker than the 5442 can do. I can run a faster shutter speed at night as well with the camera.

It really comes down to what do you want to get out of your system.

Looking at your house, I would say the candidate for that camera would be the right corner one. A perp coming up to that camera and window is going to be backlit (meaning their face would be in the shadow and can't see), and this camera excels in that setting.

The other two camera at the front of the house I don't think would benefit as much from the 5449 and the 5442 would be fine, especially if you leave the outside lights on. Just recognize that they might have to kick into IR in some light conditions.

As far as the NVR, if you were to upgrade, I would say to move to the 5XXX series. Staying in the 4XXX series probably doesn't gain you anything.

 

[tdale4]

I love the 5449 - it fills a nice niche problem area very well.

Because of the larger F-stop and dual lens, the ability to get color images is far darker than the 5442 can do. I can run a faster shutter speed at night as well with the camera.

It really comes down to what do you want to get out of your system.

Looking at your house, I would say the candidate for that camera would be the right corner one. A perp coming up to that camera and window is going to be backlit (meaning their face would be in the shadow and can't see), and this camera excels in that setting.

The other two camera at the front of the house I don't think would benefit as much from the 5449 and the 5442 would be fine, especially if you leave the outside lights on. Just recognize that they might have to kick into IR in some light conditions.

As far as the NVR, if you were to upgrade, I would say to move to the 5XXX series. Staying in the 4XXX series probably doesn't gain you anything.

I Appreciate the suggestions

I ordered the NVR5208-8P-4KS2E , 4 of the 5442's and 1 5449 and will place them like you suggested

I checked out the camera you recommended for LPR capture, 2 of them are definitely in my budget. I'm still interested in seeing if I can do LPR

I don't think I have the best angle to the street and we often have vehicles parking along side the road, but there are a few gaps in front of my neighbors driveways where I should be able to get a clear shot of a plate as it drives by, I'm just not sure if the angle is too great

do you have much experience with LPR? I'd love to get an opinion to see if it's feasible given the poor angle I have to the street, probably close to 45 degrees, no way I can get head on to the street , I can take some pictures from my house to the street tomorrow after I get home from work so you can see the angles I'd be dealing with

Thanks again
Tim

 

[wittaj]

@tdale4 - yes I have LPR experience and can help you figure out the best place to put the camera.

Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, My angle is about 40 degrees vertical, 50 degrees horizontal. Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.

 

[tdale4]

@tdale4 - yes I have LPR experience and can help you figure out the best place to put the camera.

Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, My angle is about 40 degrees vertical, 50 degrees horizontal. Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.

Awesome, I appreciate it, License plate capture may be in my future after all I had no idea LPR could work at such angles, when I read a guide about LPR about it they sad 20 degrees was the limit. I think the corner of my garage will get an angle that could work, I can see plates about as well as the one in your picture from it. when I get home alter I'll snap a few pics from a few different locations and post them

Out of curiosity do the 5xxx series NVR's have to record the LPR camera video video 24/7 and then you manually keep track of the plates by reviewing video of interest or is it possible to have the NVR just record the plate numbers as metadata along with a screenshot of the plate? I saw that the 5xxx series support ANPR, but wasn't sure if the NVR supports it with the much less expensive 5241-Z12E or if they require an expensive $1000 ANPR camera like the ITC237-PW6M-IRLZF1050-B

 

[tdale4]

@tdale4 - yes I have LPR experience and can help you figure out the best place to put the camera.

Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit, My angle is about 40 degrees vertical, 50 degrees horizontal. Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.

Attached are pictures of the best angle I can find for the 2 LPR cameras and the location on the house where I think they should go along with the direction each camera will face.

I think the garage eaves are the best location that I have and aiming the cameras in front of my neighbors driveways is about the best I can do because we have a ton of people parking on the street, generally no one ever parks in front of the driveways along the road

 

[wittaj]

Oh I think both of those angles will work just fine.

If you went up to the peak of the garage, would that get you high enough to go over the cars to stretch the distance?

Just a thought, but I think your angles are great now if you can't get them higher.

I would still opt for the 5241-Z12E as that will give you the best ability to zoom and possible move it further down if needed.

 

[tdale4]

Oh I think both of those angles will work just fine.

If you went up to the peak of the garage, would that get you high enough to go over the cars to stretch the distance?

Just a thought, but I think your angles are great now if you can't get them higher.

I would still opt for the 5241-Z12E as that will give you the best ability to zoom and possible move it further down if needed.

That's great news, I'll give then a try at the Eaves, if I run into issues then I'll see about putting them higher

I just placed the order for 2 of the 5241-Z12E cameras

 

[tdale4]

Oh I think both of those angles will work just fine.

If you went up to the peak of the garage, would that get you high enough to go over the cars to stretch the distance?

Just a thought, but I think your angles are great now if you can't get them higher.

I would still opt for the 5241-Z12E as that will give you the best ability to zoom and possible move it further down if needed.

I got my cameras and NVR in, so it's time to start running wire for this install

But before I do I was thinking about your suggestion to put the LPR cameras up a little higher.

I took a few pictures with my phone to see which angle you think is better

Obviously I can zoom in more with the 5241-Z12E than is shown in these pictures, so I don't think my Jeep roof will be in frame with the 5241-Z12E, but these pictures should give a good representation of what the angle will look like to the camera when looking at License Plates

Below is a picture of my Garage with the 2 different proposed locations, either the Red or Green areas, for cameras Placement




This is looking West if I put the Camera under the Eave in the Red Circle area in the picture of the garage, this circle in this picture is the proposed area of focus for the License plate capture



Looking West, but with the camera placed up higher in the Green circle Area of the garage picture



Looking East if I put the camera lower under the Eave in the red Circle Area of the garage



Looking East, but with the camera up higher in the green circle area of the garage picture



Let me know what you think for the Camera Placement

Appreciate your help

Thanks,
Tim

 

[wittaj]

I like the higher angle - less chance hopefully of infrared bounce off any vehicles in the driveway. And maybe a better chance at plate if neighbors park cars in driveway all the way to the street.

 

[tdale4]

I like the higher angle - less chance hopefully of infrared bounce off any vehicles in the driveway. And maybe a better chance at plate if neighbors park cars in driveway all the way to the street.

Thanks,

I'll go with the higher angle then