Best AI low light offerings?

[8bitbanger]

Hi folks -

Moved into a new house, new opportunity to try out some new cameras. I also switched over to Synology as my NVR from Milestone and wanted to try out some of the new AI cam offerings and the integration. Purchased a IP8M-2696EW-AI to play around with and it integrated with Synology flawlessly. Very happy, and I can now alert on AI hits and/or motion detection, which is great for reducing false alarms.

However I know I'm going to be disappointed the minute I put it outside, at least compared to my really old 1.3MP IPC-HFW4100S's. I really like the AI aspect. What are some current, mature products with AI firmwares and good low-light (IR) performance + good illuminators? Seems companies have really dialed back the illuminators lately? Used to be common to have a full ring of them and now you seem lucky to get more than a half dozen, LEDs, if that?

No LPR for now, just general coverage of front/sides/rear of exterior. There is zero street illumination, we live in the country so starlight only. Most of the exterior lights have the ability to be automated but I don't yet have the motions. We typically don't keep them on as matter of practice.

Out front, one critical features I've found is the ability to 'mask' areas to be excluded from WDR or auto-exposure. We have white cars so the hoods/roofs tend to cause many cameras to underexpose/mis-shutter for areas of interest surrounding the vehicles. So this will be something I'll look for. I'd like to position one of the cameras between / above the garage doors, which captures all the way down the driveway as well.

Integration into Synology is important, but I can check their compatibility list, which I've found seems to offers less 'quirks' than straight up ONVIF.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 

[The Automation Guy]

That Amcrest camera is a 4k (8mp) camera with a 1/2.8" sensor size. That is a lot of pixels on a very small sensor size which means the individual pixels are tiny. What you need is a larger sensor and/or fewer pixels if you are looking for better low/no light performance.

One of the most recommended camera series on this forum is the Dahua WizMind 5442 series. WizMind Series These are 4mp cameras on a 1/1.8" sensor size so they offer fewer pixels on a larger sensor compared to the Amcrest which results in a much larger pixel size. Because each pixel is physically larger, it can absorb more light in the same amount of time as a smaller pixel (think of a pixel as a window - a large window lets in more light than a small window). This means better low/no light performance. They offer a wide range of cameras and focal lengths in the series, so you can find the perfect camera for each location.

These cameras also have excellent AI capabilities - even more so if you purchase the cameras from "EmpireTech Andy" here on the forum. He is an official third party distributor of these cameras under the Loryta name and his firmware versions are actually better than Dahua's OEM firmware. This is because as a distributor of these cameras, he works closely with Dahua's engineers to get features and bugs corrections into his firmware that Dahua may not put into their OEM version. Plus, his prices are generally the best available and he sells worldwide (with correct firmware - so a US buyer gets a legit US firmware version).

 

[8bitbanger]

That Amcrest camera is a 4k (8mp) camera with a 1/2.8" sensor size. That is a lot of pixels on a very small sensor size which means the individual pixels are tiny. What you need is a larger sensor and/or fewer pixels if you are looking for better low/no light performance.

One of the most recommended camera series on this forum is the Dahua WizMind 5442 series. WizMind Series These are 4mp cameras on a 1/1.8" sensor size so they offer fewer pixels on a larger sensor compared to the Amcrest which results in a much larger pixel size. Because each pixel is physically larger, it can absorb more light in the same amount of time as a smaller pixel (think of a pixel as a window - a large window lets in more light than a small window). This means better low/no light performance. They offer a wide range of cameras and focal lengths in the series, so you can find the perfect camera for each location.

These cameras also have excellent AI capabilities - even more so if you purchase the cameras from "EmpireTech Andy" here on the forum. He is an official third party distributor of these cameras under the Loryta name and his firmware versions are actually better than Dahua's OEM firmware. This is because as a distributor of these cameras, he works closely with Dahua's engineers to get features and bugs corrections into his firmware that Dahua may not put into their OEM version. Plus, his prices are generally the best available and he sells worldwide (with correct firmware - so a US buyer gets a legit US firmware version).

Thank you so much for your thoughtful reply - I apologize that I couldn't respond in a timely fashion.

Since then I did get my NVR sorted out, along with getting some conduit ran to the attic so I can more easily add cameras now.

I am likely to take your suggestions on the Dahua. However I think I need to take a step back and get some recommendations on placement/coverage. This picture is taken from the end of my driveway. Property to the right extends only to the tall evergreens. To the left it goes to the wooden fence.

My instinct is to place one camera centered between the garage doors. I can bias the FOV to the left (our left), to capture more of the front yard. Intent would simply be vehicle detection and person/vehicle ID around 20' (or more) away. Do you think a varifocal is worth it here, or could you recommend a fixed focal length? An alternative location would be under the right garage door eave, far right. Concern for any camera in this area is again both of our cars are white and tend to cause auto exposure to underexpose at night.

I have a doorbell camera, but it leaves a Blindspot for the two windows on the porch. I'm thinking of placing another cam in the upper right corner under the porch, closest to house, facing the stoop/area in front of the door. Visibility though is limited beyond the porch with those bushes.

Finally I don't have a good way of getting the large swath of front/left (again from our perspective), unless I put one on the left most corner under the porch eave.

Happy to take any/all suggestions from you folks. There is a side garage entrance which will get its own camera. Around back is a different story.

Thanks!

 

[wittaj]

If a car is parked in the driveway, you will want a camera on either side, not just one in the middle.

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. DO NOT CHASE MP!!!

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for (and what are popular in the box kits), someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera to IDENTIFY them, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well.

• 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm or the 4K/X - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
• T5449H-ASE-D2 2.8mm fixed lens - anything within 10 feet of camera where the object would be in a backlit condition at night
• 5441F-AS-E2 (AKA Boobie cam) or E3241F-AS-M- great choice for a front door camera. The boobie cam can have one lens pointed down for packages
• T5241H-AS-PV - Great little active deterrence camera with two way talk. Good for anything within 10 feet of camera or as an overview camera
• 5442 ZE or 5831R-ZE- varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
• 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
• 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
• 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.

You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

 

[The Automation Guy]

I will also say that using the IVPM CCTV Calculator (IPVM Camera Calculator) is a great way to "overlay" different camera models on a satellite image of your location. It really helps determine which focal length is needed. It also helps determine the DORI distances (the coverage has different opacity for each level - so "Identify" is dark blue, "Recognize is a slightly lighter shade of blue, etc, etc). Keep in mind that all of this is simply a mathematical equation however and doesn't mean that the results you see on the calculator will exactly match your real life experience (there are so many other variables that come into play), but it is helpful.