Is a NAS an overkill?

[nayr]

not the docking station, thats for people doing system images to computers.. or doign offsite backups and want to take just the raw disk and swap a new blank one in.

scenerio:
Guest: 'whats this big button do? <press>'
You: 'Nooooooo, you just crashed the cameras'

 

[Mike K]

not the docking station, thats for people doing system images to computers.. or doign offsite backups and want to take just the raw disk and swap a new blank one in.

scenerio:
Guest: 'whats this big button do? <press>'
You: 'Nooooooo, you just crashed the cameras'

I'm Looking at this mediasonic pro bow which has two more bays than what i was looking for but it has one of the highest ratings. I especially like the status lights.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B003X26VV4&condition=used&me=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&ref=dp-buas-used-wd&pf_rd_p=2070335882&pf_rd_s=special-offers-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003X26VV4&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1N3A69SP0ZBPVVYFCCE5

 

[nayr]

that looks quite nice, one of my biggest issues with external disks is they typically offer horrible cooling.. they seal it in a tight metal box and use it as a heatsink to radiate heat away.. that actually has a fan with active cooling.

it also looks big and sturdy, the worst thing you can do to a HDD is move it when its writing.. you have multiple platters spinning at 5400-7200rpm and they have a gyroscopic effect that can cause physical damage by changing orientation suddenly.. laptops drives have smaller platters and special software/hardware to park the hdd when it gets hit/bumped/dropped, and they still rarely last abuse very long.. desktops/servers do not come with that level of safety.

treat your hdd's like its a freaking faberge egg, assume every time it takes a knock you just lost a few months of life expectancy..

 

[bguy]

I agree you don't want the open dock, it's for when you need to swap drives often. And you don't want to make it too easy for people to remove the drive storing all your security footage. But do you want a drive bay that is larger than your computer? That's fine if you need the drive bays. Unless you have plans on adding more drives in the near future, I'd stick with a single drive case.

To be honest, I wouldn't have chosen that computer for BI, I would have gone for a mid sized computer that has more drive bays in it.

 

[nayr]

personally for a remote site I would have gone with a hardware NVR, simply to avoid windows/pc and allow a nice affordable UPS to keep the entire system online for a good amount of time..

a 4 camera system with a hardware NVR could easily come in under 50w total, which a $50 UPS could run for an hour or more.. without updating operating systems, fucking with shitty drivers, etc.. I mean yeah you can get a Windows PC to run pretty stable, but never out of the box.. and it takes it time to earn your trust simply for being windows

you could remotely pull the power on a hardware NVR and be pretty confident it would boot back up, a PC on the other hand.. all bets are off: ok mebe its just doing a disk scan.. i'll wait a little longer.. hrmm, it is a big disk, bit more time.. crap, its not coming back.. fucking windows update!

 

[JMartin]

I'm Looking at this mediasonic pro bow which has two more bays than what i was looking for but it has one of the highest ratings. I especially like the status lights.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/?ie=UTF8&ASIN=B003X26VV4&condition=used&me=A2L77EE7U53NWQ&ref=dp-buas-used-wd&pf_rd_p=2070335882&pf_rd_s=special-offers-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B003X26VV4&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1N3A69SP0ZBPVVYFCCE5

I've had that very unit... wasn't happy with it for long. The USB kept dropping off, had to reboot the whole enclosure to get it back on-line, and of course that's not good.
Next I went with two of these:



But eventually I outgrew both of those tanks, so I just bought a huge case and moved them all internal on SATA. Never looked back.
Don't get me wrong... USB 3.0 is great if you have a quality enclosure, but once I moved beyond 8 drives, I found SATA a better choice (also went from 1.5TB drives to 3TB drives).
I still have those tanks somewhere... I actually took the top vent off and mounted a 120mm fan on each. Still very quiet and much cooler drives.

 

[Mike K]

OK guys Let me refresh Some of my want list:

1. Up to 8 good high resolution HD cameras, (4 inside & 4 outside), 5 in one building and 3 in another building. Cameras will interface with the CPU via switch & POE cables, (some underground), for most reliable performance.
2. Because I want to use BI sw the NVRs are out that come with their own sw. I don't know of any that don't come with their own sw.
3. Lightning arrester. and electrical surge suppressor.
4. Comcast cable.
5. I need a reasonably small total system (Modem, router, cpu, switch, external data storage), that will fit on a narrow shelf about 22" wide by 14" deep, that will be in-closed with a metal mesh and securely locked and bolted to a wall. The bad guys have robbed my farm 7 times, and I'm sure they would like my electronics as well. This cage will also have to contain key board and monitor if needed. Cage height TBD.
6. I have learned to set the windows updates to a manual setting so my work is not interrupted. i.e. auto update is turned off.
7. Since I do not live on my farm property the system will be monitored and managed mostly from my home about 1-1/2 mi away. Remote control is essential. (Windows 10 pro OS)

My objective here on the forum is to spec a total system before I purchase any of the components. To date none of the components have been purchased, but with your help, and others on the forum, I have been able to narrow the choices for most of the critical components. This thread was to assist in determining the appropriate and preferred equipment for an external data storage device. Although I'm not opposed to looking at the broader system configuration. Like I said, nothing has been purchased yet.

 

[nayr]

usually I am much more remote than a mile and a half away.. I have to wake someone up on in another country and beg for forgiveness hehe

sounds like a pretty solid plan, given history I would urge the indoor cameras to be hidden/disguised as you can possibly get them with SD card storage keeping the last day's video on a 64gb SD card, I would have one very well hidden one looking right at your equipment rack. just so if they take your gear and leave the cameras you still got your evidence.

since your so close I would sensor the inside of your equipment building like fort knox, the earlier you know someone is inside the quicker you can get your ass down there with your shotgun.

 

[Mike K]

These days I'm not moving my ass anywhere very fast as my mobility is limited due to my MS handicap. That is another reason for the system. If i can find a good cam with a 2way audio I can talk to my farm hands real time and see what their issues are as we collaborate.

Set gun would be good i think.

 

[bguy]

I guess you can tell from the replies that a system capable of having the HD installed is preferable. There are 1u rack mount systems that are about that size, and 1.7" high. Or you can use a slim line desktop case.

I'd suggest mounting your cage high up, out of reach. You could still have a monitor and keyboard down low, just try to hide any cables. Maybe have a wireless keyboard and mouse that you take with you, and leave a dummy keyboard and mouse just to mess with any would-be intruders.

 

[nayr]

Media/Data racks, they are all standardized.. a standard server rack is 48U high, ie it could hold 48 1U servers that look like this:

If you need to protect all your equipment, a secure mini-size rack cabinet is what you need.. http://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=105&cp_id=10516

you can often find used cabinets/racks on craigslist or recyclers for a fraction of what they cost new, since nobody wants to ship em.

bolt all your computers, switches, equipment inside a rack and then bolt it to a floor and then put a lock on it and while it wont be completely impossible to disable or steal.. it will be alot fucking harder take alot more time than just grabbing a mini-pc off a shelf and tossing it in a bag.. espically if you torque the fuck out of everything so it needs power tools to remove.. you can even get security bolts that stop em without the right tools.. come in with a welder and tack the bolts securing the cabinet to the concrete floor in, then they need a grinder.

sounds like you need a pretty small locking cabinet, just the NVR, PoE Switch, and perhaps cable modem/wifi, put it some place discrete, hidden inside a closet or disguised under a fake facade.. its not a big facility so if they have enough time int here they will find it unless you get very clever.. and if you get that clever, dont share it with anyone, even us

 

[Mike K]

Media/Data racks, they are all standardized.. a standard server rack is 48U high, ie it could hold 48 1U servers that look like this:

If you need to protect all your equipment, a secure mini-size rack cabinet is what you need.. http://www.monoprice.com/category?c_id=105&cp_id=10516

you can often find used cabinets/racks on craigslist or recyclers for a fraction of what they cost new, since nobody wants to ship em.

bolt all your computers, switches, equipment inside a rack and then bolt it to a floor and then put a lock on it and while it wont be completely impossible to disable or steal.. it will be alot fucking harder take alot more time than just grabbing a mini-pc off a shelf and tossing it in a bag.. espically if you torque the fuck out of everything so it needs power tools to remove.. you can even get security bolts that stop em without the right tools.. come in with a welder and tack the bolts securing the cabinet to the concrete floor in, then they need a grinder.

sounds like you need a pretty small locking cabinet, just the NVR, PoE Switch, and perhaps cable modem/wifi, put it some place discrete, hidden inside a closet or disguised under a fake facade.. its not a big facility so if they have enough time int here they will find it unless you get very clever.. and if you get that clever, dont share it with anyone, even us

Thanks for the link.
Looks like the right size for my needs is the:
6U 450mm Depth Wallmount Server Cabinet

It is expensive but as you say maybe I can find a used one. Also looks like a would need a clp of good fans for reliable cooling . If the fans fail that would be a real hot box. My other concern is the locked panel on the end of the cabinet. Looks like it could be easy to break into? Also the glass front is nice to check the equipment, but is it safty class or otherwise easy to break into.

On the other hand maybe i could mount it on the wall above the garage door where it is just hard to get to without a ladder.

Looks like a microwave.

$89 on eBay, Free shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/6U-WALL-MOUNT-IT-NETWORK-SERVER-CABINET-19-450MM-DEEP-DOOR-PANEL-LOCKS-/161729035323?hash=item25a7cd3c3b:g:UEIAAOSwmrlUtZf-

 

[nayr]

for high security get one thats perforated/expanded steel instead of glass, they naturally breath better too.

putting it so high you need a ladder to get to it is a great idea, just dont leave any ladders laying nearby

I'll see these in warehouses a good 20ft of the ground, would be very difficult to access without anyone noticing.

I got 3 full sized ones for free, smaller ones are harder to find tho.

 

[Mike K]

I like it!

 

[Mike K]

One more question about a metal server cabinet/enclosure. If the router is in it with the modem, CPU, etc, is the WiFi/BT inhibited or adversely effected in any way? I want to be able to use a Blue Tooth key board and I also want to be able to tie my laptop into the local LAN network via wifi when I am on the farm. ie at the location where the cameras/cabinet are/is.

 

[nayr]

it surely can, its effectively a weak faraday cage once you ground it.. (and you should ground it)

might consider an external PoE access point, tha'd get the WiFi out of the cabinet and to a more central and better location..

bluetooth probably wont be an issue, but if it is you can put the RF dongle on the end of a small usb extension cable, to get it closer to your keyboard/display.. I had to do this for my NVR.. its in the bottom of my cabinet and a wireless mouse would not work form my living room couch (output goes to TV), so I ran a 15ft usb cable out of the cabinet and into the floor joists under the living room.. now its only like 6ft away and only goes through some hardwood floors, works great from anywhere upstairs.. (I use a wireless track ball mouse for NVR, no keyboard other than OSD one, track balls work awesome for PTZ's)

Also extend your alarm system so there is a door contact on your equipment cabinet, that way anyone who forces the door open is bound to set the alarm off.. if they managed to get this far without triggering it.. it'll also prevent you from accidentally arming the security system if the cabinet is open.. ive seen cabinets with both a small microswitch and a magnetic contact switch wired in a series hooked to an alarm.. this was capable of knowing that the cabinet was not only closed, but also locked.. thats great for preventing you or your employees from purposely or accidentally leaving things unsecured (common attack from those you hire: steal your keys, unlock the cabinet, return your keys while your distracted)

 

[Mike K]

it surely can, its effectively a weak faraday cage once you ground it.. (and you should ground it)

might consider an external PoE access point, tha'd get the WiFi out of the cabinet and to a more central and better location..

bluetooth probably wont be an issue, but if it is you can put the RF dongle on the end of a small usb extension cable, to get it closer to your keyboard/display.. I had to do this for my NVR.. its in the bottom of my cabinet and a wireless mouse would not work form my living room couch (output goes to TV), so I ran a 15ft usb cable out of the cabinet and into the floor joists under the living room.. now its only like 6ft away and only goes through some hardwood floors, works great from anywhere upstairs.. (I use a wireless track ball mouse for NVR, no keyboard other than OSD one, track balls work awesome for PTZ's)

Also extend your alarm system so there is a door contact on your equipment cabinet, that way anyone who forces the door open is bound to set the alarm off.. if they managed to get this far without triggering it.. it'll also prevent you from accidentally arming the security system if the cabinet is open.. ive seen cabinets with both a small microswitch and a magnetic contact switch wired in a series hooked to an alarm.. this was capable of knowing that the cabinet was not only closed, but also locked.. thats great for preventing you or your employees from purposely or accidentally leaving things unsecured (common attack from those you hire: steal your keys, unlock the cabinet, return your keys while your distracted)

How about using a Power line Ethernet Adapter kit to remedy the wifi connection problem?

 

[TechBill]

How about using a Power line Ethernet Adapter kit to remedy the wifi connection problem?

I would get an wifi access point like this

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Enterprise-AP-Unifi/dp/B00HXT8R2O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460920817&sr=8-1&keywords=wifi+accesspoint

And mount it in your office ceiling or wall where you want the wifi to be the strongest at and plug it into your PoE router/switch.

Bill

 

[nayr]

These ones are better, dual band AC: http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Enterprise-System-UAP-AC-LITE-US/dp/B015PR20GY/

but 24v POE is not same as your IP Cameras, but this will convert it for you: http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-8023AF-O-Instant-Instantly-Transform/dp/B00HF91P44/r

they support doing a Guest WiFi, put it where most of your customers are going to be and the'll use it to post pictures of there new trees before they even leave your property

 

[Mike K]

I would get an wifi access point like this

http://www.amazon.com/Ubiquiti-Networks-Enterprise-AP-Unifi/dp/B00HXT8R2O/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460920817&sr=8-1&keywords=wifi+accesspoint

And mount it in your office ceiling or wall where you want the wifi to be the strongest at and plug it into your PoE router/switch.

Bill

Why is this thing so big? "Product Dimensions 21.6 x 18.7 x 12.2 inches"

Can it be pluged directly into the router" I would not have any ports left in my 8 port switch. I do have one port left in my 4 port router.