Lets talk next level PTZ's with Laser IR

bigredfish

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You gonna get the 2MP or 4MP version?
I'm torn but probably the 4MP.
Here;s a telling shot from an odd event last night. I have the PTZ working off a spotter 4MP 5442 6mm fixed bullet to turn and follow humans.
The 6 series PTZ is running 1/60 shutter with 70 gain. The 5442 is running 1/120 with 70 gain. Guess which is the 5442 ;)
HOA Entr_IP PTZ Camera_main_20210318021925_@3.jpg HOA Entr_StreetView_main_20210318021926_@3.jpg
 

tech101

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One thing i wanna ask the pros here, Which just crossed my mind how safe is a Laser IR specially Say if you are zooming on a target ? Like for the Eye exposure ?
 

Wildcat_1

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@bigredfish yes thats the issue as I mentioned in my post HERE regarding sensor size vs mp and optics. The 1/1.8" hits its sweet spot on the 4MP units currently and the 1/2.8" just doesn't cut it in my testing at that MP range. Ideally would be great to see more 4/3" (albeit expensive) units available across each range that a) can take 4MP even further (to be honest would be overkill but nice all the same) but b) is really where you want to start looking at for 8MP as 1/1.8" starts to struggle there (although can be dialed in to control some of the issues such as noise etc you see on that pairing as I showed in 4K PTZ review).

Looking at some of the rumored new units coming out such as new SD10 & SD8S additions there are some things I'm keeping my eye on such as additions of polar light, dual light fusion as well as improved aperture in some units (dropping to f1.2 on wide end) etc that I think could assist improve image overall in darker situations for target acquisition and tracking but the laser range is intriguing to see what Dah / Hik continue to do in this area as they build out these other technologies. As you mentioned you will unfortunately see some degradation on vari lenses as aperture changes along the focal length although some of the dual sensor units aim to address this by allowing constant aperture across the range of the focal length and still at a usable value (f1.4 or f1.6 as an example).

Again sensor to mp / optics is the key consideration BUT some of the additions and changes I mention here could certainly assist in the situations you, myself and others have mentioned. This would also level the playing field in longer range performance as IR has always suffered from quite substantial drop off the further you push it.

HTH
 

nbstl68

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The clarity of the 5442 looks like you could reasonable read plates at that distance? Or is it not as clear\focused for moving video objects vs. snapshot?
 

bigredfish

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Not at that distance*, and not at 1/120 with moving cars. But of course as you crank up the exposure, things get too dark generally for color LPR use, unless you have a buttload of light on the tag. Some members here have that kind of urban setting bright light and it can be done, but for most of us, going to B&W with a fast shutter is going to be the best way to get tags.

*I'd add that the 5442 just doesnt currently have enough zoom at 90-120ft. Though if it had a 12x zoom like the 5241 it would be worth a shot
 
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bigredfish

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@bigredfish
........ improved aperture in some units (dropping to f1.2 on wide end) etc that I think could assist improve image overall in darker situations for target acquisition and tracking ...
This is the biggest issue I see with PTZ's, as you zoom the Fstop gets much bigger and you lose the light.

Agree 1/1.8 seems to be the sweet spot for 4MP, but I just gotta wonder if it would further enhance 2MP as well? Dahua now has some 2MP with the 1/1.8 sensor
 

wittaj

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This is the biggest issue I see with PTZ's, as you zoom the Fstop gets much bigger and you lose the light.

Agree 1/1.8 seems to be the sweet spot for 4MP, but I just gotta wonder if it would further enhance 2MP as well? Dahua now has some 2MP with the 1/1.8 sensor
Come on man LOL...get the 2MP don't chase them MP:p

I would be shocked if the 4MP outperforms the 2MP at night on the same sensor.
 

Parley

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Not at that distance*, and not at 1/120 with moving cars. But of course as you crank up the exposure, things get too dark generally for color LPR use, unless you have a buttload of light on the tag. Some members here have that kind of urban setting bright light and it can be done, but for most of us, going to B&W with a fast shutter is going to be the best way to get tags.

*I'd add that the 5442 just doesnt currently have enough zoom at 90-120ft. Though if it had a 12x zoom like the 5241 it would be worth a shot
And real optics for zoom and not digitized as has been rumored. If Dahua uses digital zoom on the 5442E-Z12E I am out of the market for one.
 
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Wildcat_1

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This is the biggest issue I see with PTZ's, as you zoom the Fstop gets much bigger and you lose the light.

Agree 1/1.8 seems to be the sweet spot for 4MP, but I just gotta wonder if it would further enhance 2MP as well? Dahua now has some 2MP with the 1/1.8 sensor
The 2MP will absolutely see an improvement with same sensor BUT remember there are 2 areas you expect to see change, light sensitivity and noise reduction. Noise reduction will be the largest positive impact as you are not pixel cramming or pushing high density. A knock on effect of this is that you don't have to correct as much with gamma reduction, reducing gain etc to combat for noise and in turn darkening the image so that can lead to a positive improvement across the board. While light sensitivity can improve this can be marginal because when all else is considered equal (focal length, aperture remaining the same in a comparison unit etc) you are still up against the boundaries of the overall sensor and optics. Now if you compare a 2MP 1/1.8" with a different optics + SOC (primarily for processor improvements) package then you can argue that the boundaries change, maybe for better or worse depending on those changes. Make sense ?

HTH
 

tech101

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Got mine today too! You’re further along than me though, mines still in the box. Maybe Sunday

Thanks Andy!
This is my first Laser IR so very excited haha Couldn't wait It looks amazing! Is your setup with blueiris or Dahua NVR ?

I was thinking it be so nice if at some point in future Blueiris can like put IR controls like say for laser or any other cam for example built in instead of signing in to Cam GUI.. Or is there a more simple way with blueiris to say control the IR for cam Either thru BI or some app even for DeepIVS Tracking?

Thank you @bigredfish for sharing the specs of this cam and even the 2mp both are great models :)

Thank you @Wildcat_1 Always learn something from you by reading your posts. Now I know I can play with Gamma settings also for other cams for NR
 

tech101

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I’m swapping it in place of the 2MP ca
Its funny that was what I was planning to do swap a 2mp working PTZ with the laser, However now I am just going to add the laser and leave the 2mp alone maybe Laser IR 2mp in future dont know haha.
 

tech101

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I have it in the front where i have 1 2.8 2mp a 4/3 8mp and 1 1.8 8mp.

My plan is to use this laser as 4th one but it is going to be for looking down the street and auto track so say at night I am hoping if some suspect is going thru mailboxes or whatever they be on camera long before they even see all the cams
 

tech101

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So I had given some suggestion/feedback to Blueiris Team. Basically since deepstack is now a thing and blueiris does a decent job detecting motion when configured correctly, One of the suggestion is to basically Do Auto Tracking thru Blueiris so say once the Blueiris does see motion / object on a PTZ camera. If, than it can automatically lock on target and Control The PTZ to track the subject.

Seems like Ken Likes the idea this is what he replied "Absolutely considering the automatic PTZ movement :) "


I hope this does become a thing in future. if, it does this will be HUGE as non Tracking camera will all in sudden become tracking PTZ.
 
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