Outdoor Motion Sensor

[nayr]

Anyone recommend a good dual tech (PiR/RF) motion sensor from experience? preferably pet immune since my cats like hanging out in my parking area.

The area is about 30ft square, here is a shot.



I want my PTZ to focus on this area whenever there is any activity.. which is rare. Ive noticed my IR PTZ sets off my PIR lights when im looking around at night.. I want to avoid that with security sensors.

So far I am looking at this: http://www.smarthome.com/76453/Optex-FTN-ST-Compact-Outdoor-Dual-PIR-Detector/p.aspx but I only have 24VAC power to this area and no good place to hide a transformer.

I'd also like to find a nice over the door motion sensor thats more than just PIR since it will be outdoors and temperatures in colorado wreak havoc on my PIR lights; if anyone has any ideas... mebe the above dual detector mounted on the overhang pointed down? I have about 3ft overhang and only want objects within a few feet to set it off.

 

[fenderman]

Sounds like a nifty idea...food for though though..for the price of that motion detector you can have another camera recording any and all motion...

 

[nayr]

I dont like software based motion detection, bugs and snow and animals have no interest to me.. plus I have a PTZ mounted right there normally looking at my car parked on the road.. but if someone is in this area I need it to quickly refocus on that position.

The camera has 2 alarm inputs, im going to use one for this area and the second I will wire parallel to my contact switches on the rear of the house (doors & windows opening).. should be reliable enough that one camera can monitor 3 different areas.. and then idle timeout back to my car on the street.

To get the same quality image my PTZ gives would be more than $80, and I need cameras that will survive a high altitude winter.. trying to stick w/all Dahua IP cams so when the NVR I want becomes available I wont run into any troubles.

 

[fenderman]

the 3mp dahuas are about 100....the hiks are in the 80s on ali....but its a nifty idea none the less.

 

[nayr]

found this sensor: http://www.optexamerica.com/security-products/op-08cbl

at 13ft height it's detection range is 17x26ft, it runs off 24vac, and its rated for outdoor use.. its just PIR but it was designed to ignore the weather so it might be suitable for this location.

adding another camera requires more storage space and processing; which dont come for free.. I can get complete coverage of my external property with a PTZ, a PT and a Fixed.. all with more than adequate angles, pixles and lighting to do positive identification.. I'd rather avoid plastering the outside of my house with cameras, there all going to be very discrete. Also running less cameras means I can crank up the quality and fps to very good levels with reasonable 24/7 storage requirements without a monster NVR.

Ive had so much better success with physical motion detection vs video/software; I am not keen on getting an alert from my security system while I am relaxing on vacation to tell me that a bird landed on my bus or a spider setup camp in the IR light.. I only want to be bothered if a large 2 legged creature is poking around my bus and race car... which both have a ton of money wrapped up in them; the price of a good sensor is negligible.. tho I would rather not break the bank to put reliable monitoring on them.

Another option would be to put portable wireless motion sensors in these vehicles being stored; but that wouldn't catch someone trying to run away w/my lawn mower.. unless I put a contact switch on my gate.

 

[nayr]

well i found the winner, went ahead and bought a NOS unit for $60 shipped of the above sensor.. I went out and measured it, the top of the eavesment is 13ft, the width of the house beind the fence is 25ft and 17ft out is right at the edge of my bus.. wouldn't be able to detect anyone behind it anyhow.

this will be easy to install and discrete, my 24vac power for the camera is running right behind where it will be mounted and its only 10ft from the camera to tie into the alarm pair..

I think I may get more of these for the front and back doors if this one works as well as the spec sheet claims.

 

[Razer]

For what its worth I have a few of the Optex sensors you mentioned in your first post and they work great. I have yet to get my first false from them as they require both beams to be broken. I installed a few feet off the ground pointing out from fences where there is a choke point a person would have to walk by close enough to trigger the beam. So far so good!

I also use Optex for other uses, like the 300ft by 13ft beam to cover long fences. They work well and are pretty immune to falses is setup correctly. I have had great success with Optex and I noticed the other day that a few of the electrical substations around here are using Optex sensors too. Let us know how the one you got works out, I'm always interested in how things work in real life usage!

 

[nayr]

awesome thanks for the feedback on those sensors!

I also picked up a set of[FONT=Helvetica neue, Helvetica, Verdana, sans-serif][/FONT]Chamberlain wide gap contact switches to put on the gate its self

 

[nayr]

well i got the sensor and installed it, seems to work better than I expected from testing.. as an added bonus the camera auto returns to the previous point after a few moments even without an idle timeout set.

Had some trouble wiring it up; figured it out... I have the lead ran for the gate sensor which will let me zoom in on the gate very well if someone opens that up.

I am painting the motion sensor housing to match my house and the gate sensor should be here monday, when its all setup I'll take a demo video.

 

[Shockwave199]

Way to go! Looking forward to seeing that video. I did the same kind of thing at my front door. What I did was program in a tour to cover multiple spots. Provided the camera supports it, almost anything the camera can do can be programmed to run it upon motion. But I do agree with fenderman in that it's also a good idea to have a camera on an area full time. A ptz is excellent support but personally I don't like relying it on totally. And an interesting thing is that individuals can spend a good length of time doing wrong but not moving enough to set off motion, believe it or not. So set your park times a bit longer so the camera doesn't look away at the wrong times. But that's the nature of relying completely on one camera. It's hard to predict the movements of people in any given situation. That's why it's always good to cover super important areas with fixed cameras and let the ptz be the one-two punch for support.

 

[nayr]

yeah the back door is getting a fixed camera that can see the other way; but the alarm system I am working on can post over http to the PTZ so if the back door opens and the PTZ can see it then its being instructed to go there until another sensor sets it off.. same thing when the mailbox opens, its got a great shot zoomed in on it.

normally the camera sits on my car parked on the street, the PTZ lets me nicely adjust the frame every night to get the most appropriate shot.. but if someone manages to open my fairly secure locked gate now the PTZ will zoom in on that area instantly, take a picture and email it to me... no one has managed to get that gate open before, its not really worth a dedicated camera but in the off chance someone does I am ready for em.. total cost was $70 so far and the rest I already had laying about.

I setup a pattern to try out, it was pretty cool.. dont know if I'll use it however because the range of the motion sensor I think I can get in the entire frame.. and it hits a choke point very well.. I think I can adjust the hold time but the motion sensor is very quick/sensitive to my body so the moment I move again it swings back around to catch me until I am completely out of frame.. the distance the PTZ travels from its normal parked location to this is minimal so the speed at which it gets a lock on you is impressive.. so far no false alarms and no failed detections and ive been trying.

 

[Shockwave199]

Excellent. What you're setting up is perhaps the very best use of a ptz. Make that sucker work for you. Video of the results would be great.

 

[nayr]

it also comes in really great for watching my son play in the back yard if I could hack a lil GPS tracker on him over the wifi to auto track him I would lol.

My wife and I both work from home and we both have separate offices on different levels... so being able to peek outside and look around while were chained down in a meeting is great.

I am really loving this PTZ, got 2 fixed cams in the mail for back door and gate on other side plus a small pan/tilt for front door/driveway on backorder.. I am keen on a Dahua NVR with alot of IO's and support for a joystick but that may have to wait a little bit, ftp is working just fine for now and the 64GB SD card fits almost 3 full days of highest quality D1/15fps video which is good enough backup for the time.

SmartPSS for Mac is adequate for workstation viewing, better than the browser plugins and very responsive to PTZ commands.. time to add video cards and monitors to our offices.

 

[nayr]

See new video below...

Pictures:




It still needs a little tuning, I have the motion sensor set to require a few seconds of motion because it detects the gate opening and which ever alarm goes off first seems to get it.. this is why it didnt move to follow me around the car quicker.. Next time I have the ladder out I'll mask off the portion of the motion sensor that can see the gate, keeping it from racing the gate sensor to detect activity first.

I hadent noticed the gate setting off the motion sensor until today; I am thinking with the very warm temps its had to crank up the sensitivity a little bit to distinguish body heat from the hot air.

 

[Shockwave199]

Nicely done! Does the gate rock in the wind at all? Could be that. Yeah, it takes fine tuning to get it just right. Is that the 2mp ptz you have? Looks good. What mobile app do you use? I did a review on the gdmss+ earlier this year and push notification would be killer for you when you're away.

 

[nayr]

I am using GDMSS light, I was thinking of upgrading to the plus version after the rest of my cameras are installed.. having push notification would be awesome! The built in send me an email thing is adequate but it sends off a shitload of emails until the alarm settles down.. so dont leave the gate open or you'll find it's filled up your inbox.

The gate dont move in the wind; Ive had no false alarms of the motion sensor so far but when I open the gate fast/naturally I can hear the motion sensor click before the gate contact is fully broken and it focuses away from the gate (today was first hot day in high 90's since I installed it).. drove me bonkers for a little while until I opened the gate really slowly and realized wtf was going on.. technically the sensor can only see my head so I figured it was seeing the hot gate move. The sensor came with some stickers for masking off detection zones, so it should be easy to fix.. no one is getting between the bus and the gate without either opening the gate or setting the motion sensor off somewhere else.

Some caveats ive found:
If an alarm is going off, a 2nd alarm wont gain attention until the first one is resolved.. so if I leave the gate open it stays focused there.. if I close the gate then a moment later the other alarm will gain focus.
If an alarm hits some set point in time (60+s i think) the camera wont refocus back on the front and will stay focused on the command point even after alarm has settled... the other alarm can steal focus with no problem but it will reset back to the first alarm after it settles back down.

It would be much nicer if the logic were a little more exposed; luckily I wont have this problem when issuing http commands from remote sensors because I can prioritize sensors in my own code if multiples are set off.. ie, screw the motion sensor if the gate opens.

Overall I am very happy with the results, if you come in the front it catches you coming through the gate every time with a very nice angle.. if you come in from the back the motion sensor catches you and provides a better overall picture of whats going on.. As an added bonus when you trip off a sensor at night the click from the relay and whir of the PTZ gets your attention and makes you look right up into it.

yeah thats the dahua 2mp 12x ptz that the critic recently reviewed... great camera for the price.

 

[Shockwave199]

You might want to think about not using the gate alarm and sticking with the other one, so it's not a battle. You can set a preset tour to make that camera do whatever you want from one sensor. It can go to the gate, then back up for a shot of the cars, and wherever else you want to point it. It can rotate between those two and what what you could do is make the tight gate shot two separate presets, so if you make another tight shot to the gate as the last preset in the tour and make it park for the amount of time it takes for the camera to return to the home position at the curb, it will stop an endless tour cycle that way.

An yes, push trumps email all the way. Much better.

 

[nayr]

actually I just tested my theory about the gate being hot, now that its dusk and its cooled down and not in the sun opening the gate did not set off the motion sensor first... I can live with that, its at night I am worried about it.. it will only be susceptible to this issue for a few hours a day for a few weeks a year.. its a little quicker now but I really dont care if the motion sensor does not get a fast moving person through there as the gate sensor will have got a better shot anyhow.

going to try to make another video, coming from both directions..

 

[nayr]

Here we go; working exactly as I had hoped.



now in effect I have 3 cameras in one, PTZ just became a lil more cost effective.. especially at the price of this one.

 

[Shockwave199]

Man that is awesome. Great work! THAT is a perfect demonstration of the real power of a ptz. And since you'll have so few false triggers, every push you get will be something you want to see for sure. How's it looking at night with IR? Probably awesome too. Nice work man!