Who's controlling the camera? The camera, the NVR or the iVMS client?

[cosmo]

I see that the HikVision camera can do motion detection, that the HikVision NVR can do motion detection and so can the HikVision iVMS-4200 software running on a PC and connecting to the HikVision NVR.

So, if I have all these set up, who's really running the show? Who's doing the actual processing? Aren't there conflicts?

 

[nayr]

the cameras are processing the video for motion, the clients (iVMS and NVR) dont do anything but listen for signals saying motion has happened so they know to do something with the video.

 

[cosmo]

Thanks Nayr. From the number of postings on the subject, there seems to be a lot of confusion on the relationship between cameras, NVRs and client software. Clearly a configuration could have one, two or all three. I see postings saying that motion detection has to be enabled on the NVR, but no region selected, then set up line crossing on the cameras. It doesn't seem intuitive and the HikVision manuals do not discuss this. Is there a definitive guide to how the cameras, NVRs and client software work together and how the important functions such as motion detection, VCA and scheduling should be set up? At least with an all HikVision systems, one would hope there is some integration. When I read postings that contradict what you've said yet the poster is successful, it leaves me wondering whether they got it to work but didn't really understand how. I am finding it quite confusing, poking around with settings until I get something to work rather than truly understanding the fundamentals of what's happening. As an example, right now I am struggling to get tampering to send me an email by any means. I've followed the manual but there must be a combination of requirements that I don't have set up properly. I am leaving the country to install a system in a few days and I feel like I'm brute forcing it to work by luck rather than understanding.

 

[nayr]

I guarantee you the cameras do all the motion processing..

If you use a PoE NVR you cant get direct access to the cameras, they are on an isolate network.. so all the configuration for the camera has to go through the NVR, which is sent back to the camera.. the problem lies if you get cameras with newer features than your NVR and you cant configure them through the NVR.. so people have to go to the camera to get it done, or sometimes in a mixed and matched system the NVR cannot configure the motion processing at all but it can recognize the signals.. so you might be configuring the zones and masks directly on the camera, then turning around and configuring the actions to perform on the NVR.. because the NVR could not configure the zones/masks remotely on its own.

The cameras process the video and detect motion, they can either do something directly.. like email a snapshot, ftp a file.. or they can do nothing and just signal that motion was detected.. any clients connected to the cameras have there own configuration and do there own stuff when triggered.. but that dont mean they actually process the video for motion.. if your NVR or Client are configured to do something on motion they just listen for the signal so they know when to start recording, or when to send an email, or when to ftp offsite.. the NVR, PC Software and Camera can all be configured to trigger the same actions upon a motion event.. and while each device performs the actions locally, the camera is running the show and firing off the events that trigger those actions.

while the clients can be configured individually/directly to react to motion events in there own ways, they are merely watching the camera's event feed for a trigger that the camera fires off on an event.

 

[cosmo]

Given the situation that I have a current model HikVision camera, a current model HikVision NVR that seems to recognize the features of the camera that I want to use and that I will only be able to have remote access, do you think I should connect the camera to a router via a PoE injector or simply plug it into the NVR? In other words, under what circumstances could you envisage remote access to the camera being needed? It is a standard 2.8mm fixed lense HikVision - value line, nothing fancy.

 

[nayr]

personally, I'd never use a NVR w/built in PoE unless I was installing it at someone's else's property whom is so completely technically ignorant they need as basic of a plug-n-play system that I could provide.

lots of time's you may need direct access to the camera, like updating firmware.. or troubleshooting issues.. overall I perfer to do all configuration directly on the camera as much as possible, that way you know the settings stuck and it didnt just appear to work.

 

[cosmo]

I just pulled the Camera cable out of the NVR and plugged it into my injector... ;-)

Soldier on...

 

[phoenixone]

personally, I'd never use a NVR w/built in PoE unless I was installing it at someone's else's property whom is so completely technically ignorant they need as basic of a plug-n-play system that I could provide.

This is a very interesting post that caught my attention.
I purchased a great system from Milkisbad;

8816 NVR
Total of 8 2MP cameras with a mix of 2.8mm and 4mm lenses.
The NVR has 16 built in PoE's.

I love the system and Milkisbad has been beyond awesome!
Can you explain to me,...in laymen's terms, why would you never use an NVR w/built in PoE's?
I'm curious to know.

Appreciate it. Thanks!

 

[nayr]

an external switch with PoE is far more flexible from a network admin's viewpoint.. you think IP Cameras are my only PoE devices?

 

[phoenixone]

an external switch with PoE is far more flexible from a network admin's viewpoint..

Ah. ok. Is it possible to offer an explanation what kind of flexibility i'd get if I switch to an external switch?

..you think IP Cameras are my only PoE devices?

I honestly have no idea if IP Cameras are you're only PoE devices.
I guess it's safe to assume you have other devices that are PoE.

I can admit, without shame, that I am totally new when it comes to the world security cameras.
I joined IPCAMTALK with the eagerness to learn.

 

[nayr]

for one you can access all your devices directly without going through the NVR, this is key for troubleshooting network issues.. and you can build a branched network if nessicary, where you chain switches off each other... also most switches let you manage power to the devices remotely, so if a camera hangs or locks up you can cycle the power to it via PoE switch... the PoE ports on a NVR are not GigE so they cant handle alot of throughput coming from a branch switch or current required by big PTZ's and stuff.

I have PoE WiFi Access Points, PoE VoIP Phones, PoE Security Nodes, PoE Switches, oh yeah and PoE IP Cameras.. i need poe for more than just IPCameras, so it makes alot more sense to get a PoE switch.

 

[phoenixone]

Whoa....
Sounds major.
I'm going to have to google most of the benefits you mentioned and learn more about them.
I'm wondering if it still will be beneficial, prudent or even if I'd be able to switch to a separate PoE switch since I already made my purchase of a PoE NVR.

Funny thing about me is, I self taught myself to build e-commerce websites, build a gaming PC for myself and others and sustain a reef ecosystem in my living
room.
But for the life of me,...for the lack of a better explanation, I become ADD when it comes to networking.
My mind helplessly drifts when trying to learn about networking. This, is something that I need to conquer.

 

[nayr]

if your happy with what you have dont let my comments suddenly make you unhappy.. its the same system you had a few hours ago before you read my comments.

 

[phoenixone]

if your happy with what you have dont let my comments suddenly make you unhappy.. its the same system you had a few hours ago before you read my comments.

That...is the absolute truth.


But, if there is room for improvement, it wouldn't hurt exploring the possibilities.
Thanks for bringing PoE switches to light for me and also taking the time explaining the benefits in layman's terms for me.

 

[cosmo]

So a quick question from another networking novice: As soon as I pulled the IP camera out of the NVR and connected it to my Wi-Fi router via a PoE injector, I noticed that the network traffic being monitored by the NVR went up. Naturally, as the 3MP camera transmits about 4MB/s. So if you have a lot of IP cameras, especially something like the 12MP models, this could mean a lot of data on the network, whereas if they are directly connected into the NVR's PoE port, there is no data on the network. My question is: Is this essentially what a switch does, filtering the traffic between the devices that need it, rather than with a router that does not filter anything and flood the network with all the traffic? I seem to recall this is one of the features of a switch over a router. But like I said, I'm a networking novice.

 

[nayr]

your thinking a hub... that sent traffic from one device on the network to all devices on the network.. a switched network, only the devices talking to each other see the traffic.. nobody's been using hubs for the last 20 years, and they went completely extinct at least a decade ago.. I have not seen a hub in eons and I come across all sorts of antiquated network gear all the time.

routers route between networks on different segments, they perform a completely different job.

you dont have to worry about throughput on your switch, they basically guarantee full throughput two and from all ports simultaneously.. which your never going to hit.. for example the 48 port switch I recently purchased has a switching capacity of 96Gbps.. so it has enough capacity for every port to max out at 2Gbps (full duplex)

I cant explain why the network traffic by the NVR went up, unless its only reporting traffic on the LAN interface.

 

[cosmo]

Thanks for the clarification on terminology. I just looked at the HikVision NVR's screen again under Maintenance, Net Detect, Traffic. It shows inbound and outbound traffic on the LAN. Inbound with the one 3MP camera connected is about 300Kbps and goes up to 2500Kbps if I wave my hand in front of it. Outbound is 20Kbps unless I am remote monitoring, in which case it shoots up. So it is data coming into and leaving the NVR. If the Camera is connected directly to the PoE port, inbound data is negligible.

 

[nayr]

yeah tis only measuring lan traffic, and ignoring the traffic on the PoE ports.. but there is traffic on them, its just not metered on that page.. in reality your consumption is the same, if this showed all interfaces combined it'd show that fact.. but it only shows LAN stats