Video linked Conference Rooms

[bug99]

I want to set up two rooms in two different locations into a bridged conference situation. I would like some advice for gear and techniques to use. I see this as each room having a 42 inch display from the other room’s camera and two way audio. I am thinking that either a wide angle fixed camera or perhaps even better would be a camera with pan and zoom from the other room from wide to not so wide angle. It doesn’t need to be perfect day one, nor should it be crazy expensive. If it works out, there will be more money to make it better in a few months.

I figure the interconnect will be to a small form factor Intel box (internet and drives the display etc), a small powered speaker with speakerphone capability. This is a one-way audio from the camera or two way from the computer. It seems like doing the sound at the computer with a simple powered speakerphone via 3.5mm will be best, but options abound.

It seems like a small desk friendly (or perhaps recessed in the ceiling) PTZ (unless there is a pan and zoom without tilt). Desk friendly allow for mobility. Ceiling allows it to disappear from the table.

 

[fenderman]

I want to set up two rooms in two different locations into a bridged conference situation. I would like some advice for gear and techniques to use. I see this as each room having a 42 inch display from the other room’s camera and two way audio. I am thinking that either a wide angle fixed camera or perhaps even better would be a camera with pan and zoom from the other room from wide to not so wide angle. It doesn’t need to be perfect day one, nor should it be crazy expensive. If it works out, there will be more money to make it better in a few months.

I figure the interconnect will be to a small form factor Intel box (internet and drives the display etc), a small powered speaker with speakerphone capability. This is a one-way audio from the camera or two way from the computer. It seems like doing the sound at the computer with a simple powered speakerphone via 3.5mm will be best, but options abound.

It seems like a small desk friendly (or perhaps recessed in the ceiling) PTZ (unless there is a pan and zoom without tilt). Desk friendly allow for mobility. Ceiling allows it to disappear from the table.

No reason to reinvent the wheel..this has already been solved with skype and many other video conferencing options...you will not achieve a good result using ip cameras for this..

 

[bug99]

I think Skype is the wrong wheel on the bus. It is inherently backwards. Although it has a lot going on, it is designed for person to person communication, not room to room or at least person(s) to room.

As far as I know, Skype (or the tools like it that I know of), will not let the viewer decide the focus and zoom of the remote camera, or even if it is on, like what a video conference does. It can be made to work to some degree by having a person in the presentation side constantly orient the camera to where the remote listeners want to see (without the zoom ability). Basically the control is on the wrong end.

I also don’t think it is really aligned with long term frequent connections, but this could probably be solved. You would probably need to give rooms the accounts instead of using personal accounts.

 

[fenderman]

I think Skype is the wrong wheel on the bus. It is inherently backwards. Although it has a lot going on, it is designed for person to person communication, not room to room or at least person(s) to room.

As far as I know, Skype (or the tools like it that I know of), will not let the viewer decide the focus and zoom of the remote camera, or even if it is on, like what a video conference does. It can be made to work to some degree by having a person in the presentation side constantly orient the camera to where the remote listeners want to see (without the zoom ability). Basically the control is on the wrong end.

I also don’t think it is really aligned with long term frequent connections, but this could probably be solved. You would probably need to give rooms the accounts instead of using personal accounts.

Logitech PTZ Pro Camera for Professional Video in Any Space
You will not solve this problem with an ip camera. I can guarantee that. Like I said, look into the various services available for a reliable setup.

 

[bug99]

@fenderman , nice choice! Thanks for that, it looks ideal. According one of the last comments, my assumption was incorrect: "You can also operate the camera from a remote location using software such as Skype for Business and Microsoft, Lync." I guess Skype for business has PTZ control. [i thought Skype for business was one and the same as Lync]

I started messing around with a VSN Mobil V.360 and Skype, and although interesting, has some serious shortcomings especially with the UI, and the requirement to use a phone (with BT) near the camera. No way to make it work with a real conference with it present Skype implementation.

It is not yet clear to me why you are so against IP camera based solutions (PTZ, VPN, android and PC based local and remote viewers with control), but I do think the camera you linked (or one like it) is a great choice, & likely the better choice. I suspect i will figure that out in time.

 

[fenderman]

It is not yet clear to me why you are so against IP camera based solutions (PTZ, VPN, android and PC based local and remote viewers with control), but I do think the camera you linked (or one like it) is a great choice, & likely the better choice. I suspect i will figure that out in time.

Because you will gave audio syncing and quality issues...dont waste your time...

 

[nayr]

WebEx has telepresence units that do what you want; they will even zoom in on who's talking automagically.. I use them all the time; quite reliable and pretty damn nifty.. Just invite the TP Unit to the meeting and it starts up at the prescribed time... Im sure they are not cheap.

 

[tangent]

the certificate for newsroom.cisco.com has been revoked lol

 

[bug99]

WebEx has telepresence units that do what you want; they will even zoom in on who's talking automagically.. I use them all the time; quite reliable and pretty damn nifty.. Just invite the TP Unit to the meeting and it starts up at the prescribed time... Im sure they are not cheap.

Ya, i have been in many rooms with their gear. The newer high end stuff is pretty amazing and magic (like at one of their larger corporate conference rooms) . I am sure it is a long ways from cheep, even the entry stuff is likely 10x to 50x the price of budget systems. I do not remember it ever being used to link someone in from outside the Eco system either, like in Skype or Hangouts-vill, if and when that is needed. Obviously if mixed eco-systems were in play, their fancy P-frame reconstruction etc would not work, but i wonder if it plays together at all.

I noticed this after @fenderman 's link. If Lync / Skype can remotely control the pan and zoom (with the proper drivers i assume), this might be a good place to go next, and i can afford to try it at two sites.

 

[Q™]

I use Skype (free), 2 old Dell T3400 workstations ($100.00 each on eBay) and 2 Facevision HD (cost $100.00 each at the time) cameras to connect a room in Indiana and a room in New York. It works like a charm, never a problem, the visual clarity is fine. The audio is fine. It is finely cheap. The pipe is 100/30 on the NY end and 50/15 on the IN end.

 

[bug99]

i read a few quick reviews on the Logitech C930, and unfortunately, it appears to be almost crap for conferences. it is cheep, but the even cheaper (half price) and older C920 seems to be better. I was coned (marketing) into believing this was a PTZ. this quote below tells me what i needed to know. still looking for a good solution then...

"For controls, you get Pan, Tilt, and Zoom options within the 90-degree field of view. But it's all digital; there are no motors. Logitech claims the camera offers 4x digital zoom, but as with point-and-shoot cameras, it's pretty useless unless you don't mind a serious degradation in sharpness."

 

[nayr]

thats how most of em work; even the Cisco TP units just digitally zoom.. but its okay if you start off with a high resolution camera because most realtime meeting services cant handle very high resolution anyhow and scale everything down.. so instead of getting scaled down it just crops it down to heads and no quality is really lost.

Ive been playing with the demo for ManyCam and it lets me feed IP Cameras in as virtual WebCameras, even picture in picture.. wife wants to do a Virtual Baby shower and afterwords Im thinking of putting an IP Camera in my home office and augmenting my webcam with it.. but im having troubles w/the demo on my WebEx sites and with FaceTime so Ive not been willing to pay for it yet.

Would help my youtube live camera broadcasts then I can do 2 cameras live in splitscreen or show the WebUI and the camera output as im dicking w/settings..

 

[bug99]

might be able to handle digital zoom if there were enough pixels to see the literal writing on the wall (no one needs to see my skin imperfections) and take a snapshot of it. the shocker was the digital pan function with the 90 deg field of view, not 90 deg within a 180 deg pan field. It would be very hard to read the writing on a wall white board without a true pan motor i think. I think that V360 has 16MP to start and the app chooses 1080p to pass on after processing for fish eye, so that might work if done better.

I still think that there is a lot of room for a great small PTZ in the sub $700 range that works with Skype or others. ManyCam looks interesting at first glance. DO you know of any PZTs that are fairly small (or smaller) that start with a 90 deg FOV?

 

[nayr]

Dahua Mini Black Face PTZ (SD29204S-GN)

has a 112 degree FOV on wide

 

[bug99]

It seems like the SD29204T-GN has so much more to offer for the money, s the Logitech PZT is $800 without motorized zoom. Perhaps digital zoom is enough, but why is it so expensive? I don't want the audio in the camera anyway, as i prefer to use a desk speakerphone. Would the SD29204T-GN work right side up on a desk board as an option, or would the pivot directions get all messed up?

I think using Skype for business and / or WebEx with just audio or with screen sharing plus either an out of band manually controlled ceiling or desk camera on the white boards would be superior for engineering discussions. i dont think people realy want to look at other people any more, just the data. I would like to play with ManyCams.

 

[bug99]

i guess this Sony PZT is the other end of the price spectrum, making the Logitech a bargain. I would be curious as to why this has the Sony 1/2.8" Exmor CMOS sensor "providing low light sensitivity of 1.4 lux", some 200x less sensitive than the starlight line

 

[nayr]

the mini black face ptz should flip, think i was testing it on the floor.. it dont have any downtilt in this orientation so you might want to sit it on a wedge or something so it can see the floor