Security Camera Backup Power (8 Hours +)

Kalan

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Looking into providing backup power for 25ish security cameras over a few switches... what is a cost effective way of doing this?

I've just looked at a 2000w battery from CyberPower (PR2000ERTXL2U) that is around $1100AUD but that can only get me 215 minutes of backup @ 50w of draw. I've estimated 10w from switch and between 50w and 80w (depending if it has 4 or 7 ports utilising POE). I've estimated also a draw of 10w from a Dahua IPC-HDW2421R-ZS, specs website says 9.75 is this max? It doesn't list nominal/average power usage. Have I greatly over estimated my power draw?

... an additional $800 for a BP48VP2U02 will boost a PR1500ERTXL2U, PR2000ERTXL2U, PR2200ERTXL2U and PR3000ERTXL2U up to around 650-660 minutes, which in theory is MUCH more ideal.

Is this the price you HAVE to pay if you want decent backup times, or are there other ways? Additionally security alarm systems are powered by 12v batteries... why don't they use UPS, is it because the value/efficient isn't matched or does it just come down to load?
 

sebastiantombs

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Security systems can use 12 volts because that is their basic operating voltage, for everything attached to it as well. The current/power draw, is relatively low, o the order of an amp or two. A video surveillance system is vastly different. Switches and an NVR/VMS need 120VAC to supply all the voltages involved internally, like 48VDC for PoE. Cameras, generally, can also be powered by 12VDC, rather than PoE, but at over a half amp, say 7 watts, each, with the IR lamps on, it would take a very significant sized battery to power one for an extended time, let alone a lot of them.

The only viable alternative. budget dependent of course, is a backup generator with automatic transfer. That's even more expensive but you won't run out of battery that way, just make sure to have lots of fuel.

I use two UPS supplies, one for switches, router, IP phone modems and a MoCA adapter, and one for my VMS, a PC running Blue Iris. The small one, running the switches and such, is a 1000VA with a run time of ~45 minutes. The one for the VMS is a 1500VA with a ru time of ~30 minutes. That gives me enough time to manually transfer to a generator without having to rush. The generator is gasoline powered and I keep 50 US gallons on hand, just in case. We've lost power in bad storms for a week at a time here.
 

Kalan

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Security systems can use 12 volts because that is their basic operating voltage, for everything attached to it as well. The current/power draw, is relatively low, o the order of an amp or two. A video surveillance system is vastly different. Switches and an NVR/VMS need 120VAC to supply all the voltages involved internally, like 48VDC for PoE. Cameras, generally, can also be powered by 12VDC, rather than PoE, but at over a half amp, say 7 watts, each, with the IR lamps on, it would take a very significant sized battery to power one for an extended time, let alone a lot of them.

The only viable alternative. budget dependent of course, is a backup generator with automatic transfer. That's even more expensive but you won't run out of battery that way, just make sure to have lots of fuel.

I use two UPS supplies, one for switches, router, IP phone modems and a MoCA adapter, and one for my VMS, a PC running Blue Iris. The small one, running the switches and such, is a 1000VA with a run time of ~45 minutes. The one for the VMS is a 1500VA with a ru time of ~30 minutes. That gives me enough time to manually transfer to a generator without having to rush. The generator is gasoline powered and I keep 50 US gallons on hand, just in case. We've lost power in bad storms for a week at a time here.
Thanks for your response and insight.

At our business we have a large generator, we're a printing company so this is expected and although we don't use it regularly it is probably 5-10 times each year. That being said this is only during work hours, so the security camera situation is covered in that regard. When power goes out after hours how could we best deal with this? Is there an industry standard/expectancy that security cameras + switches are powered off UPS?

The security camera system is managed on-site and not by a third-party, although I have some knowledge in networking and understanding things like encoding, VLANs, POE types, switches etc the aspect of redundant power in this environment is unfamiliar to me. For a server or a computer sure place a nice 3000 watt battery next to it and you're all sweet!

... also one thing I forgot to mention is that between 1500 watts and 3000 watts the 50w runtime estimate doesn't increase, infact in decreases or is not nearly as efficient for the total watts usable. Why is that? Poor estimation or is there a science to it?
 

sebastiantombs

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From my experience in IT, we always had large Liebert UPS supplies for the servers but there was a room full of them along with all the core network gear. When power dropped, the Liebert took over, and would run, maybe a half hour at most. That gave enough time for the backup generator to spool up and transfer to that. There was one incident when the backup generator failed and the Lieberts held out for about 45 minutes, then darkness and these were huge UPS supplies with tons, literally tons, of batteries in them.

Run times on UPS supplies are a little strange to me. It is influenced by the efficiency of the DC to AC converter and what the manufacturer may decide makes good advertising fodder. There are "independent" calculators but they don't take efficiency into account. Finding an efficient one of a reasonable size and splitting the load between a few of them may be your best option, but that doesn't solve your time dilemma unless you go to big, really big, UPS supplies like those Lieberts we had. Just bring your checkbook, though.
 

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I've just looked at a 2000w battery from CyberPower (PR2000ERTXL2U) that is around $1100AUD but that can only get me 215 minutes of backup @ 50w of draw.
That cyberpower box is a UPS, not a battery. 215 minutes at 50 watts is 180 watt hours of energy. Not a whole lot. You probably can't roll your own, but if you could, a pair of golf cart batteries can provide 1,200 watt hours down to 50% depth of discharge. Keep them on a trickle charge and get an inverter with an automatic transfer switch and you've got more than 6x the usable energy capacity for maybe about the same cost or not a whole lot more. I see too that cyperpower has an extended battery pack that would add another 108 watt hours of energy (based on specs that I had a hard time deciphering).
 

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Sounds like it is time for a standby generator with an auto transfer panel.

I run large batteries on my UPSs to give me longer battery life.
 

TonyR

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Texas might have some used wind and solar power generation devices available at a good price right about now.......:highfive:
 

mat200

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Looking into providing backup power for 25ish security cameras over a few switches... what is a cost effective way of doing this?

I've just looked at a 2000w battery from CyberPower (PR2000ERTXL2U) that is around $1100AUD but that can only get me 215 minutes of backup @ 50w of draw. I've estimated 10w from switch and between 50w and 80w (depending if it has 4 or 7 ports utilising POE). I've estimated also a draw of 10w from a Dahua IPC-HDW2421R-ZS, specs website says 9.75 is this max? It doesn't list nominal/average power usage. Have I greatly over estimated my power draw?

... an additional $800 for a BP48VP2U02 will boost a PR1500ERTXL2U, PR2000ERTXL2U, PR2200ERTXL2U and PR3000ERTXL2U up to around 650-660 minutes, which in theory is MUCH more ideal.

Is this the price you HAVE to pay if you want decent backup times, or are there other ways? Additionally security alarm systems are powered by 12v batteries... why don't they use UPS, is it because the value/efficient isn't matched or does it just come down to load?
Hi @Kalan

UPS for the first 15-20min and then a Generator
 

Kalan

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Hi @Kalan

UPS for the first 15-20min and then a Generator
Thanks for your input, we have a large generator, we're probably not going to use it unless we knew we had power loss for a week. This is just to provide redundancy, say overnight when the business isn't operating. So like 8-10 hours. The key times of the year are during winter because of trees dropping down on powerlines etc. I'll mention it to management but we've had a generator for a LONG time and it's even just been replaced with a nice new one, so I feel like it's either been overlooked, they weren't aware most of the cameras wouldn't be powered OR they just don't want to.

Appreciate the responses everyone.
 

sebastiantombs

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That fuel gets stabilized when I fill the five gallon cans. It is also used for fuel in all the yard equipment, tractor, chipper/shredder, weed whacker, chain saw, snow blower and a partridge in a pear tree, so it never sits more than a few months before being replaced.
 

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You can always buy 100LL aviation fuel. It has a shelf life of like 10 years.

I buy it for my small generators, so when you are finished with it, run the fuel out,
add 100LL and run until the carburetor is full of 100LL. They will start right up 2 years later.
 

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It is either a large UPS with extra batteries, or a small generator. I have seen rooms full of batteries for some applications. All in how much you want to spend. Unfortunately, probably not a simple solution to run it for 8 hours.
 

sebastiantombs

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Back in the "good old days" we did security for an ATT building, microwave relay/trunking switch facility. They had a whole FLOOR, say 150x150 feet, of batteries about five feet tall just in case and to provide power until the 100KW generator spooled up and stabilized.
 

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I'd find a larger APC SmartUPS, like an SU2200, that has the EBP connector, which is a big Andersen PowerPole connector. these typically are 24v or 48 v systems, although I've seen some that are 96V.

use golf cart batteries, which are rated at 200-220AH each at 6V, 4 in series for 24V, 8 in series for 48V. Wire them up in series using 2/0 wire, terminated with the correct size Andersen PowerPole for your UPS.

With 50% discharge, a 100AH usable at 48 volts is 4800 watt*hours. That should run a dozen cameras at around 7 watts each, plus a NVR at maybe 100 watts for many hours, I think that load is about 200 watts total, so figure 4800/200 == 24 hours. To be realistic, UPS's don't come anywhere near 100% efficiency, so I'd expect probably half that actual life, but hey, it will get you there.

do be sure to put those 4 or 8 golf cart GC_2 batteries in proper battery boxes and install them in a space thats ventilated to the outside, because under high load, those can output H2 gas which is explosive. my RV has 2 GC2's, in an airtight battery box that has a vent hose to the outside.

for about double the money you can get GC2's as AGM batteries that are sealed, and don't need ventilation. Flooded GC2's are under $100 each at places like Walmart, Costco. the AGM ones are somewhat over twice that, and you'll need to find a Trojan or other industrial battery dealer. A refurbished SU2200 can be had for around $1000.
 

Mark_M

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I've seen this thing that aims to be a battery backup with a long run time.
Switching time at the end seems fast, but I don't know if it's fast enough to imitate a UPS.

 

Left Coast Geek

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EcoFlow Delta Max... claims 2000 watt*hours, if it was based on a lead acid battery, that would be about what two golf cart batteries can hold, but its a NCM (Lithium, Nickel, Cobalt and Manganes). For $2000, I'm not sure its that great of a deal but it should run a 200 watt total surveillance system for 10 hours.

oh, and 'pledge on kickstarter' ? pays you's money, takes you's chances.
 

Mark_M

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if it was based on a lead acid battery, that would be about what two golf cart batteries can hold, but its a NCM (Lithium, Nickel, Cobalt and Manganes). For $2000, I'm not sure its that great of a deal
Buying a small UPS and sticking 3 deep cycle batteries can do the same trick for longer run time.

I managed to get a slightly higher amp hour battery for the same size in my UPS. I also run my UPS off a boat battery I have during a long power cut.
 
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