Sanity Check - Better cameras, IR Illuminators or tweak Blue Iris?

[JoshFink]

Well, I've had some cameras up for a while but I've mostly used them just to see what's going on in front of the house from my office.

I woke up this morning and saw that someone had broken into my car in the driveway. I thought I at least would have some good video. Well, in my opinion, the video was kind of bad. My initial thought is that my Blue Iris settings were just not tweaked properly (they aren't) and that I didn't have enough light.

I have two cameras out front, both Hikvision, one bullet (DS-2CD2042WD-I) and one Turret (DS-2CD2342WD-I)

The bullet sits about 20 feet up on the side of the driveway and the Turret sits right above the garage door.


I'm hoping it's just a combination of camera settings plus illuminators but I'm open to whatever.

After looking, it seems that my bullet and turret settings are set exactly the same in the camera.


Any help would be greatly appreciated, even if it's telling me that I'm posting in the wrong place and pointing me in the right direction. I'm a little frustrated right now with my lack of quality video so excuse me if this came off wrong.

Thanks

 

[fenderman]

Well, I've had some cameras up for a while but I've mostly used them just to see what's going on in front of the house from my office.

I woke up this morning and saw that someone had broken into my car in the driveway. I thought I at least would have some good video. Well, in my opinion, the video was kind of bad. My initial thought is that my Blue Iris settings were just not tweaked properly (they aren't) and that I didn't have enough light.

I have two cameras out front, both Hikvision, one bullet (DS-2CD2042WD-I) and one Turret (DS-2CD2342WD-I)

The bullet sits about 20 feet up on the side of the driveway and the Turret sits right above the garage door.


I'm hoping it's just a combination of camera settings plus illuminators but I'm open to whatever.

After looking, it seems that my bullet and turret settings are set exactly the same in the camera.


Any help would be greatly appreciated, even if it's telling me that I'm posting in the wrong place and pointing me in the right direction. I'm a little frustrated right now with my lack of quality video so excuse me if this came off wrong.

Thanks

1 - blue iris CANNOT affect image quality...you cannot tweak anything..this is a camera issue
2- you are getting motion blur because your noise reduction is set too high...set it to 50 or less.
As far as the image itself, that is basically as good as it will get with those cams...you need low light cameras, like the dahua startlights or hikvision low lights to get better quality....with those you could run in day mode with the amount of light you have..and you wont have the IR washout of the face...
you can try enabling smart ir to see if it helps with the face washout..

 

[alastairstevenson]

For the heavy ghosting - too high a DNR (digital noise reduction) is the culprit.
For those 4MP models, a higher light level, well spread to avoid facial whiteout, is needed for improved night-time detail.

 

[looney2ns]

Dahua 2MP Starlight Lineup

 

[JoshFink]

2- you are getting motion blur because your noise reduction is set too high...set it to 50 or less.
As far as the image itself, that is basically as good as it will get with those cams...you need low light cameras, like the dahua startlights or hikvision low lights to get better quality....with those you could run in day mode with the amount of light you have..and you wont have the IR washout of the face...
you can try enabling smart ir to see if it helps with the face washout..

I saw the post about the Dahua's but I don't remember seeing Hikvision low lights. I'll have to look and see if I can find them.

Do you know off hand where SmartIR is or what it's called in the Hikvision? I can't seem to find it.

For the heavy ghosting - too high a DNR (digital noise reduction) is the culprit.
For those 4MP models, a higher light level, well spread to avoid facial whiteout, is needed for improved night-time detail.

Thanks. So would an IR Illuminator provide the needed light level or does it just make sense to get different cameras? I like the day time picture.

Dahua 2MP Starlight Lineup

Thanks, I'll check this out.

 

[looney2ns]

I saw the post about the Dahua's but I don't remember seeing Hikvision low lights. I'll have to look and see if I can find them.

Do you know off hand where SmartIR is or what it's called in the Hikvision? I can't seem to find it.



Thanks. So would an IR Illuminator provide the needed light level or does it just make sense to get different cameras? I like the day time picture.



Thanks, I'll check this out.

More light is always a good thing.

 

[gordo]

I would point those cameras down a little more to totally cover the cars, and lower the one that is 20 ft up to get a better shot of his face.

 

[bigredfish]

Good advice given above.

Whatever you do, before throwing money at it, as you make changes, test your cams by recording yourself in motion at various light levels. As you've seen, a great still image with no movement doesnt really tell you anything. Almost any 2MP or greater camera will have a reasonably good picture in daylight. Add movement and low light and its a whole new ballgame.

 

[JoshFink]

Hi, I wanted to give an update. I had some time to put in a light above the garage door (about 10 feet up vs the 25 that the other light was. It took me a couple of days as I had to run a new circuit.

Here are two updated videos. One is at an Exposure Time of 1/60 and the other is at 1/120. The 1/120 seems to be darker and I think I like the 60 better however I've been going back and forth for a while and I'd like a 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinion. I also think this could be clearer but maybe I'm expecting too much from the camera and need to look at one of the Dahua Low Light cameras.

This time you're stuck with me for a video subject. Excuse the "late night attire". Kids are asleep so I thought this was a good time to see what I can do to adjust.

BTW, this is much harder to tweak and get right than I thought it would. I appreciate all the help.

Settings are the same for both except for the Exposure Time.

 

[bigredfish]

Agree with @colmcille. BIG improvement over where you started, and probably about the best you're going to get without more white light or more/better low light cameras. Really not bad at all, I prefer the 1/60 but as stated above, the actual difference on facial ID is minimal.

You may experiment with a brighter bulb in that new light...or for under $20 it may be worth experimenting with adding additional IR light at an offset angle from the camera itself so that you dont create more washed out faces.

Probably a 2MP low light camera such as the Dahua 5231R-Z or as you've gone with HIK, the HIK Ultra Low Light versions would show substantial improvement.

I think your biggest challenge is trying to cover too much area with to few cameras. Probably the most common problem as I found myself. On driveways with multiple vehicles, I'm a big advocate of using two cameras crossed to adequately cover things. This allows you a tighter shot on each vehicle. See my examples here:

(change to 1080p)

I need to get a newer clip of the one I keep in Auto mode in B&W/IR as I've improved it since then with some tweeking and reduced the wash out from the strong IR

 

[JoshFink]

See what other folks think too.
I think what you have there is about as good as you can get in that triangle with the equipment and lenses you have.

Thanks @colmcille for the reply. It does help validate what I'm seeing. I didn't know about the rain the the 1/120th so that's great to know.

A couple of questions if you have the time:

• Do you have a suggestion on a camera that might give me better results based on your experience? (I do need to check out that Dahua thread).
• Is it the light that is limiting the performance of the camera at 1/120 or is it just the camera itself?

Honestly, after someone trying to break in I'm just trying to get the best picture I can for a reasonable price. If this is the best I can get with the cameras available then so be it but I'll probably keep tweaking for a bit.

Thanks for all the help

 

[JoshFink]

Thanks @bigredfish , that's a lot of great info. I do have an additional IR light that I could put up. With my limited testing I didn't find it did much good. Maybe I'm expecting too much or I just need a more powerful light. I purchased the CMVision IR110.

 

[bigredfish]

Hmmm that would seem to be adequate, I have my eye on this one after a member here did some testing recently. Dont have the thread link handy but
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZWFKRLK/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IFO827VLX8WD8&colid=MEZRMUGE25FE
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ZWFKRLK/_encoding=UTF8?coliid=IFO827VLX8WD8&colid=MEZRMUGE25FE
Being as you already have it, try temp mount via a ladder or something and place it offset to the extreme left of your image (beyond the FOV) shining towards the middle of the cars... sometimes angle can play a big role in how IR is picked up by the camera..

Also see if you can increase the lumens in that new light. Try improving lights before investing in the more expensive low light cameras. You really aren't too bad off as-is I think, and ultimately its all about light.

Good job! Night and Day from where you started.

 

[JoshFink]

Also see if you can increase the lumens in that new light. Try improving lights before investing in the more expensive low light cameras. You really aren't too bad off as-is I think, and ultimately its all about light.

The light, unfortunately, is not adjustable. It's an LED light where there is no bulb and it's all built in. I might just replace it with two 1500 Lumen LED bulbs that are actually separate bulbs. I'll probably do all this today and post some more tonight.

I think I'm going to try and order out on of the Dahua cameras. Not sure how long they'll take to get here but we'll see.

 

[bigredfish]

Good plan on the lights.
Not sure what you're recording to (NVR?) but ask someone more knowledgeable than I about mixing Dahua/HIK equipment...

 

[JoshFink]

Good plan on the lights.
Not sure what you're recording to (NVR?) but ask someone more knowledgeable than I about mixing Dahua/HIK equipment...

It's BlueIris, it should be fine as it takes inputs from almost any camera I can find.

 

[JoshFink]

I really appreciate all the help and everyone's tips. It's definitely coming along. I'm probably going to get to the point where I need balance my want for light and my neighbors want to not be blinded.

Latest update. New Lights out front. Two 1500 Lumen LED Bulbs. Camera at 120 and 60 Exposure with a slightly adjusted gain.

I did wind up ordering two of the Dahua cameras that should be here next week.

 

[bigredfish]

Now your cookin! Great comeback

 

[JoshFink]

The darker picture at 1/120 is just due to less light coming in because of the shorter exposure time. You should have less blur at 1/120 when you pause the video for a still picture than at 1/60. The police here in my neck of the woods are incapable of looking at any video, so they just want to know what happened, clothing description, and a couple of still shots of faces. That's why I concentrate on trying to get a good non blurred still face shot when the video is paused. I look forward to seeing what you get with the Dahua cameras. You've done really well with the Hiks in my opinion.

Thanks... The police here actually can use the video. I gave them my video from last time and they called me back asking if I had anything clearer (which really pissed me off that I didn't). At least when/if it happens again I'll have a better picture.

 

[JoshFink]

@fenderman , @bigredfish , @colmcille, and @alastairstevenson thanks for all the tips.

@looney2ns thanks for the suggestion on the Dahua.

I wanted to follow up this discussion. I finally got the new cameras. This is the Dahua IPC-HDW5231R-Z that replaced my Hikvision.

I like the picture. I'm not sure, at not at least, I can tell the difference between the 4MP Hikvision and this 2MP Dahua.

One interesting thing I noted is that I forgot to set it to auto switch from day to night and the picture looked good with only my 2 LED flood lights at the front of the house.

I need to do some tweaking as you can see from the digitization and such when I walk down the driveway in the beginning and a little bit after. The setting names are a little different than the Hikvision so I need to play around with them. Any suggestions would be great. Maybe I should turn it into night mode and see if it does a little better.

Suggestions are always welcome.