Noob needs help with a train wreck

[MarcusPointeIT]

I just took a position at a large church. The previous tech guy purchased $5k worth of HIKvision NVR's and 35 Amcrest poe ip 4k cameras. He figured out how to configure the IP's for the camera, make the NVR see the cameras, and then he left.

The admin want to know why the cameras are not functioning correctly, and why I haven't fixed it yet. I have a series of questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm new to all this so go easy.

1. I am considering selling the NVR's and buying Amcrest NVR's. I realize that HIKvision NVR is 64 channels and 80TB of space, and the Amcrest is only 16 port/32channel and 20TB a piece. My question about this is the current NVR is simply connected via cat6 which is connected through our fiber switches where the cameras are located around the buildings. With the Amcrest NVR, would I have to connect each camera physically or could I set it up with just one uplink to the switches where the cameras are?

2. If I have to stay with the setup I have, is there a 3rd party software where the two will play nice? The software from HIkvision is useless and the we browser has 0 functionality with the cameras. I can't set up presets nor can I choose which camera to view. It's either all of them or 1 of them.

3. I have most of my cameras up and running, but there are a few that are "Disconnected Not supported." Though they are assigned an ip, are reporting to the switch with power and have previously functioned normally. Is this a network limitation or is there something I'm missing with these cameras?

4. What's your opinion? Fight for new Amcrest NVR or new Hik cameras?

Thank you in advance. Really in over my head here.

 

[mat200]

I just took a position at a large church. The previous tech guy purchased $5k worth of HIKvision NVR's and 35 Amcrest poe ip 4k cameras. He figured out how to configure the IP's for the camera, make the NVR see the cameras, and then he left.

The admin want to know why the cameras are not functioning correctly, and why I haven't fixed it yet. I have a series of questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm new to all this so go easy.

1. I am considering selling the NVR's and buying Amcrest NVR's. I realize that HIKvision NVR is 64 channels and 80TB of space, and the Amcrest is only 16 port/32channel and 20TB a piece. My question about this is the current NVR is simply connected via cat6 which is connected through our fiber switches where the cameras are located around the buildings. With the Amcrest NVR, would I have to connect each camera physically or could I set it up with just one uplink to the switches where the cameras are?

2. If I have to stay with the setup I have, is there a 3rd party software where the two will play nice? The software from HIkvision is useless and the we browser has 0 functionality with the cameras. I can't set up presets nor can I choose which camera to view. It's either all of them or 1 of them.

3. I have most of my cameras up and running, but there are a few that are "Disconnected Not supported." Though they are assigned an ip, are reporting to the switch with power and have previously functioned normally. Is this a network limitation or is there something I'm missing with these cameras?

4. What's your opinion? Fight for new Amcrest NVR or new Hik cameras?

Thank you in advance. Really in over my head here.

Welcome @MarcusPointeIT

Q/remark: "I just took a position at a large church. The previous tech guy purchased $5k worth of HIKvision NVR's and 35 Amcrest poe ip 4k cameras. He figured out how to configure the IP's for the camera, make the NVR see the cameras, and then he left."

reply:
Q1: Are you "the hired tech"?

Q2: Sounds like the system is setup and working.

Q3: Do you have experience with IP PoE cameras?

Q/remark: "The admin want to know why the cameras are not functioning correctly, and why I haven't fixed it yet. I have a series of questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm new to all this so go easy."

reply:
What is not functioning correctly?

Before you buy anything, or ask to purchase anything .. this needs to be answered.

 

[CarlosBarletta]

I just took a position at a large church. The previous tech guy purchased $5k worth of HIKvision NVR's and 35 Amcrest poe ip 4k cameras. He figured out how to configure the IP's for the camera, make the NVR see the cameras, and then he left.

The admin want to know why the cameras are not functioning correctly, and why I haven't fixed it yet. I have a series of questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm new to all this so go easy.

1. I am considering selling the NVR's and buying Amcrest NVR's. I realize that HIKvision NVR is 64 channels and 80TB of space, and the Amcrest is only 16 port/32channel and 20TB a piece. My question about this is the current NVR is simply connected via cat6 which is connected through our fiber switches where the cameras are located around the buildings. With the Amcrest NVR, would I have to connect each camera physically or could I set it up with just one uplink to the switches where the cameras are?

2. If I have to stay with the setup I have, is there a 3rd party software where the two will play nice? The software from HIkvision is useless and the we browser has 0 functionality with the cameras. I can't set up presets nor can I choose which camera to view. It's either all of them or 1 of them.

3. I have most of my cameras up and running, but there are a few that are "Disconnected Not supported." Though they are assigned an ip, are reporting to the switch with power and have previously functioned normally. Is this a network limitation or is there something I'm missing with these cameras?

4. What's your opinion? Fight for new Amcrest NVR or new Hik cameras?

Thank you in advance. Really in over my head here.

 

[CarlosBarletta]

Hello There, please feel free to call our Support Line at 1-713-893-8956 so one of our Sales Team Members can help shape a Surveillance System that best fits the bandwidth of the Church. Amcrest Team

 

[MarcusPointeIT]

Welcome @MarcusPointeIT

Q/remark: "I just took a position at a large church. The previous tech guy purchased $5k worth of HIKvision NVR's and 35 Amcrest poe ip 4k cameras. He figured out how to configure the IP's for the camera, make the NVR see the cameras, and then he left."

reply:
Q1: Are you "the hired tech"?

Q2: Sounds like the system is setup and working.

Q3: Do you have experience with IP PoE cameras?

Q/remark: "The admin want to know why the cameras are not functioning correctly, and why I haven't fixed it yet. I have a series of questions. Any help is greatly appreciated. I'm new to all this so go easy."

reply:
What is not functioning correctly?

1. I am the temporary replacement tech guy

2. The system is running, but consistently drops cameras, disconnects cameras, and refuses display cameras, shows no link. The software/browser interface will only display all the cameras or one, no in between. I cannot set presets either.

3. I have zero experience other than what I've had to do here.

4. Connectivity and live view. I currently have them running in the daycare, but once I have them running in our elementary building and I can't set up presets, how can I make them useful if all 50+ cameras display or one? Why are some just dropping connection to the web browser when they are reporting to the switch with connectivity and power?

Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the confusion. Still figuring all this out.

 

[SouthernYankee]

Define the problem. What is not working correctly?
What are the model numbers of the equipment cameras and nvr ?
Are the cameras on the same network as the other church equipment ? Sam sub net?

 

[MarcusPointeIT]

Define the problem. What is not working correctly?
What are the model numbers of the equipment cameras and nvr ?

HIKvision NVR DS-9664ni-i8 x2
25 Amcrest 8 meg POE 4k cameras mostly turret and a few bullet cameras connected via cat6 to a ubiquity 24 switch that is run via fiber to another switch, which is then plugged into our NVR.

We figured out how to assign ip addresses to the camera and get them to recognized by the NVR. After that, it is a shot in the dark if they will work or not. What do I mean? I get no link errors, disconnected, not supported across random cameras when I can see that they are getting power and are linked at the switch. All of this when only a day before, they were linked and working fine. I also cannot use the web browser nor the software for the nvr with the cameras other than to view all of them or one of them. I cannot set presets, choose to show only 5 cameras of choice, only all or one. Sometimes one camera will choose not to display. It gives no error, it just doesn't display.

If I call Amcrest they tell they can't help and same for HIKvision.

 

[Griswalduk]

My immediate thoughts are this might be a bandwidth issue. NVR's will have a limited incoming bandwidth. The model i have is limited to 320Mbps for up to 16 POE cameras.

For my set up 320/16 = 20Mbps per camera.

For your set up and assuming your NVR has similar incoming bandwidth

320/35 ( your number of cameras ) = 9.14Mbps per camera

If you have your 4k 8mp cameras all running at maximum settings you will easily exceed your bandwidth limits.

If you can try setting your cameras to 1080p 15fps and a CBR of 4096 and see if things stabilise.

Other thoughts welcome

 

[looney2ns]

First, Can you properly view cameras when using a monitor connected directly to the NVR?
For the time being, forget using IVMSS software or the web interface.
Baby steps, tackle one issue at a time.

 

[mat200]

FYI - equipment in question:

"HIKvision NVR DS-9664ni-i8 x2
25 Amcrest 8 meg POE 4k cameras mostly turret and a few bullet cameras connected via cat6 to a ubiquity 24 switch that is run via fiber to another switch, which is then plugged into our NV "












ref:

https://us.hikvision.com/sites/default/files/data_sheet/ps_ds-96xxni-i8_series_100720na.pdf

 

[mat200]

1. I am the temporary replacement tech guy

2. The system is running, but consistently drops cameras, disconnects cameras, and refuses display cameras, shows no link. The software/browser interface will only display all the cameras or one, no in between. I cannot set presets either.

3. I have zero experience other than what I've had to do here.

4. Connectivity and live view. I currently have them running in the daycare, but once I have them running in our elementary building and I can't set up presets, how can I make them useful if all 50+ cameras display or one? Why are some just dropping connection to the web browser when they are reporting to the switch with connectivity and power?

Thank you for your reply. Sorry for the confusion. Still figuring all this out.

Hi @MarcusPointeIT

1st recommendation: Consult with the prior IT expert who set this up .. be prepared to pay consulting fees if needed.

2nd do not spend money until you learn some, this will take some time.

3rd check configuration of the channels and cameras - ONVIF is what you want as you are running Hikvision NVRs and Amcrest Cameras ( they are typically Dahua OEM - Dahua and Hikvision have their own native APIs and thus you may need to set the channel to ONVIF for each Amcrest Camera, and each Amcrest cameras to ONVIF ).

4th check the bandwidth used. Run the cameras at lower fps if you need to. I prefer to keep the cameras at their native resolution and reduce the fps. ( even try 5 fps if you have to .. )

 

[MarcusPointeIT]

My immediate thoughts are this might be a bandwidth issue. NVR's will have a limited incoming bandwidth. The model i have is limited to 320Mbps for up to 16 POE cameras.

For my set up 320/16 = 20Mbps per camera.

For your set up and assuming your NVR has similar incoming bandwidth

320/35 ( your number of cameras ) = 9.14Mbps per camera

If you have your 4k 8mp cameras all running at maximum settings you will easily exceed your bandwidth limits.

If you can try setting your cameras to 1080p 15fps and a CBR of 4096 and see if things stabilise.

Other thoughts welcome

I recently had the same thought so I brought everything down to the exact recommended specs and it hasn't improved, sadly.

 

[MarcusPointeIT]

First, Can you properly view cameras when using a monitor connected directly to the NVR?
For the time being, forget using IVMSS software or the web interface.
Baby steps, tackle one issue at a time.

Yes. I have a bank of cameras, set to the same settings as the rest, that seem to work consistently (few hicups here and there), but there are four that never stop malfunctioning. I know they have power and have data. I can see that at the switch. Two say "Failed to get Stream" and the others say "network is unreachable."

 

[MarcusPointeIT]

Hi @MarcusPointeIT

1st recommendation: Consult with the prior IT expert who set this up .. be prepared to pay consulting fees if needed.

2nd do not spend money until you learn some, this will take some time.

3rd check configuration of the channels and cameras - ONVIF is what you want as you are running Hikvision NVRs and Amcrest Cameras ( they are typically Dahua OEM - Dahua and Hikvision have their own native APIs and thus you may need to set the channel to ONVIF for each Amcrest Camera, and each Amcrest cameras to ONVIF ).

4th check the bandwidth used. Run the cameras at lower fps if you need to. I prefer to keep the cameras at their native resolution and reduce the fps. ( even try 5 fps if you have to .. )

1. I can freely talk with the previous tech guy who, sadly, knows as much as me. He purchased these devices, thinking he could figure it out and left as he was doing just that. So he can't help.

2. Agreed.

3. Everything is on ONVIF

4. Bandwidth was my first thought as well. I brought everything down to 1080P and 15fps. You think I should bring them down to 5fps to see if that helps?

 

[wittaj]

I recently had the same thought so I brought everything down to the exact recommended specs and it hasn't improved, sadly.

What recommended specs are you running at in terms of FPS and bitrate? That along with MP resolution dictates the bandwidth needs.

EDIT - you were providing that at same time I asked LOL. Sounds like a networking issue or power issue providing power to the cams, among other things.

How are the cams powered - POE switches, wall warts, POE injectors, etc? If a POE switch, unplug a few cameras and see if it stabilizes. Might be drawing more power than the POE can provide.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I'd pull those problem cameras one at a time and check them with a known good cable. If they hold signal, then you've got a cable or connector issue most likely. As a secondary test, you could re-terminate both ends of one of them, use 568A or B, run a simple continuity/pair test to confirm a good connection, then see if that camera stays stable. After that it may be a power problem and a simple test with a wall wart would eliminate that.

 

[MarcusPointeIT]

What recommended specs are you running at in terms of FPS and bitrate? That along with MP resolution dictates the bandwidth needs.

EDIT - you were providing that at same time I asked LOL. Sounds like a networking issue or power issue providing power to the cams, among other things.

How are the cams powered - POE switches, wall warts, POE injectors, etc? If a POE switch, unplug a few cameras and see if it stabilizes. Might be drawing more power than the POE can provide.

1080, 15fps, 3-40960 bit rate. They are all POE switches. I will run this test and see what I come up with. TY

 

[mat200]

remember, NVRs the priority is to record the info.

Check if you have H.265 set .. if so try H.264 .. may reduce the CPU compute load at the expense of more bandwidth ..

Ideally I'd want to use some sort of bandwidth / cpu / ram load measuring tools to monitor what is happening.

I'd also want to see the HDD load ..

 

[user8963]

BEFORE you think its the camera or nvr..

FIRST check cables with a real network tester/check if they are even rated for poe(if you use it).. also tester show you a calculated cable lenght.

if cables/jacks are tested good, cable is poe rated and not too long,

THEN continue with the system itself.

you SHOULD avoid calling other installers because they will always blame your system and try to sell you a new one because they mostly make lot of money by selling junk.

also try to get the guy who installed it to fix it.

 

[mat200]

FYI - also can be electrical interference .. depends on the quality of the cable runs.. example, old style ballasts in light fixtures can cause issues, so cables need to not be draped over those .. ( yes, I've seen this done by some bone head installers )

Try to identify if it is a problem cable / cable run .. camera ..