New Here - Looking for recommendations

Froglens

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Hello all,

Im pretty new to the IP security camera scene but I am a IT tech so that may help ;)

I have currently have 2 Reolinks 511Ws and a Amcrest ip4m-1026w plus 2x Eufy Cam2s.

The Reolink and Amcrest connect
To a Synology NAS.

TheAmcrest is for my front of the house and it is able to monitor the whole front but it constantly senses motion because lights reflecting from headlights at night on my cars, or the snow on the ground. Sun and shadows from clouds trigger it all the time. The same thing from the Reolinks, I have them pointing towards my house from my shed in the backyard. It covers two entry points on either side of my house. But the issue is the lights from inside my house when turned on and off at night trigger them. Also the same issue from Shadows from clouds and light changes.

I don’t have any issues with the Eufy Cams, but the other 3 are wrecking havoc on my sanity. I’ve played with all the settings, sensitivity, zones and well It seems these can’t be overcome with these models of Cameras.

I think I need to replace them and was wondering what would be a good setup for me.

The 3 three I have right now are all bullet cams, but I’ve seen some threads on the Turret style and the Dahua 5442 series might be a good choice?
They would also need to connect to my Synology NAS (I have 3 of them) and they would be set for continuous recording.

I just want these false alarms to stop due to these conditions.

Thank you I’m advance for those who take the time to answer.

ps I’m in Canada so -30 weather is not uncommon.
 

mat200

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Hello all,

Im pretty new to the IP security camera scene but I am a IT tech so that may help ;)

I have currently have 2 Reolinks 511Ws and a Amcrest ip4m-1026w plus 2x Eufy Cam2s.

The Reolink and Amcrest connect
To a Synology NAS.

TheAmcrest is for my front of the house and it is able to monitor the whole front but it constantly senses motion because lights reflecting from headlights at night on my cars, or the snow on the ground. Sun and shadows from clouds trigger it all the time. The same thing from the Reolinks, I have them pointing towards my house from my shed in the backyard. It covers two entry points on either side of my house. But the issue is the lights from inside my house when turned on and off at night trigger them. Also the same issue from Shadows from clouds and light changes.

I don’t have any issues with the Eufy Cams, but the other 3 are wrecking havoc on my sanity. I’ve played with all the settings, sensitivity, zones and well It seems these can’t be overcome with these models of Cameras.

I think I need to replace them and was wondering what would be a good setup for me.

The 3 three I have right now are all bullet cams, but I’ve seen some threads on the Turret style and the Dahua 5442 series might be a good choice?
They would also need to connect to my Synology NAS (I have 3 of them) and they would be set for continuous recording.

I just want these false alarms to stop due to these conditions.

Thank you I’m advance for those who take the time to answer.

ps I’m in Canada so -30 weather is not uncommon.
Welcome @Froglens

Looks like all the cameras you currently have are WiFi cameras.

So far, from years of experience and knowledge gained by member here:

1) WiFi is not recommended. Go wired IP PoE cat6 quality cable with real copper wires AWG 23-24.
2) Remember to properly mount and connect the cables to the cameras ( see the notes about di-electric gel and sealing tape... I also like to go one step more and go with junction boxes )
3) Look for SouthernYankee's cheatsheet notes.. has numerous models to start with for your considerations.
4) Most members do not like Synology NAS as a recording device for security cameras.. and prefer Blue Iris VMS on a decent PC.
5) Alarms.. security alarm sensors help reduce false positives.. recommend getting a security alarm system to add to the setup.



example of a camera you have up:
1613334860309.png
 

Froglens

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Welcome @Froglens

Looks like all the cameras you currently have are WiFi cameras.

So far, from years of experience and knowledge gained by member here:

1) WiFi is not recommended. Go wired IP PoE cat6 quality cable with real copper wires AWG 23-24.
2) Remember to properly mount and connect the cables to the cameras ( see the notes about di-electric gel and sealing tape... I also like to go one step more and go with junction boxes )
3) Look for SouthernYankee's cheatsheet notes.. has numerous models to start with for your considerations.
4) Most members do not like Synology NAS as a recording device for security cameras.. and prefer Blue Iris VMS on a decent PC.
5) Alarms.. security alarm sensors help reduce false positives.. recommend getting a security alarm system to add to the setup.



example of a camera you have up:
View attachment 82629
Thx for the reply.

For the Reolinks I’m using PowerLine connected to a switch so no wifi on them. The Amcrest is wifi actually but I could do the same setup via a powerline adapter.

I don’t turn on lights in the front if
My house as there are streetlights and sometimes when they flicker
On and off they trigger the Amcrest.

I only use the Synology Surveillance Station to store the data and use the Cameras config/settings for their actual functionality.

There must cameras that don’t get
Triggered from a shadow of a cloud or car light reflections in the snow.

I will try lowering the Amcrest and adjusting the angle buti don’t see that making a difference.

Is it because these Cameras don’t have smart AI or something like that ? Maybe it’s the good old saying you get what you pay for?

Im open to suggestions :)
 

mat200

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..

There must cameras that don’t get
Triggered from a shadow of a cloud or car light reflections in the snow.
..
Hi Froglens,

"... but I am a IT tech so that may help .."

If you were coding the firmware on the camera how do you solve this(*) problem with only image by image changes?

(*) - There must cameras that don’t get Triggered from a shadow of a cloud or car light reflections in the snow.
 

Froglens

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Hehe I’m not a programmer...

So I understand the before and after pixel motion but only afterI realized I probably bought the wrong cameras.

I’ve read a few threads on Dahua Cameras that handle these light changes very well thus eliminate a lot of these false detections.

Guess I’ll try one of those ones to see.
 

mat200

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Hehe I’m not a programmer...

So I understand the before and after pixel motion but only afterI realized I probably bought the wrong cameras.

I’ve read a few threads on Dahua Cameras that handle these light changes very well thus eliminate a lot of these false detections.

Guess I’ll try one of those ones to see.
Hi @Froglens

Ok, let's try another IT angle on this then...

Would you play a new 3D shooter game with a PC that worked well playing the original Duke Nukem???
 

Froglens

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I was just hoping someone would be able to recommend
Hi @Froglens

Ok, let's try another IT angle on this then...

Would you play a new 3D shooter game with a PC that worked well playing the original Duke Nukem???
I have a Synology DS1520+ which I think can handle 3 cameras quite easily with its eyes closed ;)
 

mat200

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I was just hoping someone would be able to recommend


I have a Synology DS1520+ which I think can handle 3 cameras quite easily with its eyes closed ;)
Hi Froglens...

Recommendation was already suggested in the first reply:

So far, from years of experience and knowledge gained by members here:

1) WiFi is not recommended. Go wired IP PoE cat6 quality cable with real copper wires AWG 23-24.
2) Remember to properly mount and connect the cables to the cameras ( see the notes about di-electric gel and sealing tape... I also like to go one step more and go with junction boxes )
3) Look for SouthernYankee's cheatsheet notes.. has numerous models to start with for your considerations.
4) Most members do not like Synology NAS as a recording device for security cameras.. and prefer Blue Iris VMS on a decent PC.
5) Alarms.. security alarm sensors help reduce false positives.. recommend getting a security alarm system to add to the setup.



longer answer clearly seems to be what is required:

1) Cameras have limited compute power. Cheaper cameras have even less compute power.
2) Algorithms to detect "alertable" issues based on image changes require significant compute power AND image by image change calculations which are meaningful for users tend to not be reliable as the compute and "AI" requirements for that are significant. ( read hard problem for software engineers to solve.. )
3) NAS boxes normally have minimal compute power, and thus do not do well to help with #2

You can get better cameras, better NVR / VMS .. but based on our experience it is still better to also have security alarm system.
 
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Froglens

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Hi Froglens...

Recommendation was already suggested in the first reply:

So far, from years of experience and knowledge gained by member here:

1) WiFi is not recommended. Go wired IP PoE cat6 quality cable with real copper wires AWG 23-24.
2) Remember to properly mount and connect the cables to the cameras ( see the notes about di-electric gel and sealing tape... I also like to go one step more and go with junction boxes )
3) Look for SouthernYankee's cheatsheet notes.. has numerous models to start with for your considerations.
4) Most members do not like Synology NAS as a recording device for security cameras.. and prefer Blue Iris VMS on a decent PC.
5) Alarms.. security alarm sensors help reduce false positives.. recommend getting a security alarm system to add to the setup.



longer answer clearly seems to be what is required:

1) Cameras have limited compute power. Cheaper cameras have even less compute power.
2) Algorithms to detect "alertable" issues based on image changes require significant compute power AND image by image change calculations which are meaningful for users tend to not be reliable as the compute and "AI" requirements for that are significant. ( read hard problem for software engineers to solve.. )
3) NAS boxes normally have minimal compute power, and thus do not do well to help with #2

You can get better cameras, better NVR / VMS .. but based on our experience it is still better to also have security alarm system.
Again thx for the reply ;)

Ok fine about computing power I know all about that... I have servers that run 16 core processors... that’s not what i am asking...

Im asking for a Camera that “would help” eliminate false “motion” from what I have described.

thx though .

cheers.
 

sebastiantombs

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:welcome:

Welcome to the enchanted land of video surveillance lunatics, good guys, nut jobs and miscreants (yes, I fit into at least three categories). There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here and knowledge and experience are shared constantly. That's how I got to be a lunatic (already a nut job and miscreant).

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

Three rules
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. For positive identification the subject needs to be within less than 3 meters of the camera and that assumes a full face-on shot, IE mounted no higher than two meters or so. Watch this video to learn how to analyze each location for appropriate lens size and keep in mind that it may take two cameras to provide the coverage you need or desire.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

3241T-ZAS Review

Less expensive models -

VPN Information Thread
 

mat200

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Again thx for the reply ;)

Ok fine about computing power I know all about that... I have servers that run 16 core processors... that’s not what i am asking...

Im asking for a Camera that “would help” eliminate false “motion” from what I have described.

thx though .

cheers.
Have you searched the forum??? ... we've covered this type ( of question ) 1000s of times..... ( see hint )

In general, I don't like to give a particular Model as each person has different needs and requirements, as well as different budgets and there are many models which can meet those needs.

Also number people fail to give a clear functional requirement of what they are looking for in a camera.

In your case, it is clear your cameras are budget cameras - so I really do not know how much you are willing to spend, nor do I know if you want the camera to do the heavier lifting or a system like Blue Iris.


hint: cliff notes, sourthernyankee's welcome, sebastiantombs welcome message... ( which he's just posted above .. )
 
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Froglens

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Thank you, i will take a look at that sheet.
Yeah they were definitely not the most expensive that’s for sure.
I kind of just jumped in without really doing a ton of research.. my bad.
I’ve checked the reviews I’m here and I appreciate those that have done so.

Well for right now I won’t be
Considering BlueIris mind you maybe one day so it seems it will be more the Camera doing the work since my NAS is really just for storage.

Just for my home and whatnot.. best bang for your buck sort of thing but since i got budget cams, yeah I’m willing to spend more
For less hassle/harassment from them lol.

I’ll keep poking around.

re
 
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Just for my home and whatnot.. best bang for your buck sort of thing but since i got budget cams, yeah I’m willing to spend more
For less hassle/harassment from them lol.
Like @mat200 said, telling one to buy a specific cam without really knowing what the requirements are, is dodgy. Please read the Cliff Notes prior to buying another cam. There is a lot of info there to help you out.

It is very hard to give you a recommendation for a replacement to any WIFI cam since none of us really believe that a WIFI cam is the right choice for ourselves. The only cams most would recommend are hard wired IP cams.

There is a possibility that you could flash the Amcrest cam with Dahua firmware. Others here have done that with good results. If that firmware has IVS in it, you may be able to set it up to minimize the false alerts. Do a search here for that. Does the current firmware have tripwires or boxes? They generally are less susceptible to headlight issues than just simple motion.

If you decide to buy a new cam and are willing to run ethernet cable, then look at the Dahua 5442 series, either the bullet or turret form factors. There are a lot of reviews on here about them.
 

Froglens

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I need this tough love because the wifey well she won’t give me any after I tell her I’m buying new cameras lol...

I have PCs kicking around that if need be I’ll setup on BI and give them 32GBs of Ram and tons of storage.

Just need to rethink the Cameras I want/need and what I need is less false notifications :)
 
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When I started out I was using a Qnap NAS and it's cam software. After a while I got really frustrated with it. Ended up getting a dedicated Win10 PC and Blue Iris. That worked out well for me. It has been over two years now and I am still slowly building out the system. But for me it is a hobby. I have 23 live cams and three waiting to be deployed. Good luck.
 

sebastiantombs

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This may seem like tuff love, but a lot of us have been there and done that with inexpensive cameras and WiFi cameras. We're trying to save you wasted time, effort, money and frustration. WiFi just isn't made for, or capable of, handling constant video transmission especially at the higher resolutions, bit rates, available today. Unless you can spread the cameras over well separated channels it won't be very reliable with more than two cameras per channel. Even then there will be many dropouts even with a single camera, the "retry loop".

Dahua uses IVS for motion detection quite well. Blue Iris can be configured to receive alerts via ONVIF from those events which can greatly reduce false triggers which can be very handy with some situations like shadows from swaying trees.
 

Froglens

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I appreciate the feedback!

Out of the 3 only 1 if a wifi continuous connection as I have Ethernet for the other 2 with wifi turned off. I didn’t do POE as I have power in the shed.

I actually prefer Ethernet over Wifi for sure.. it was just a backup consideration incase my powerline wasnt able to handle it... which it seems it can ;) it’s either that or running Cat6 cables underground.

I was checking out Hikvision and Dahua and seeing all the models etc...

I have yet to check that sheet yet and will do so soon..

I have BI in my shopping cart... just haven’t pulled the trigger yet ;)
 

SouthernYankee

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My standard welcome to the forum message.

Read Study Plan before spending money
Cameras are for surveillance to get information for after the fact.

Please read the IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes and other items in the IP Cam Talk Wiki. (read on a real computer, not a phone). The wiki is in the blue bar at the top of the page.

Read How to Secure Your Network (Don't Get Hacked!) in the wiki also.



Quick start
1) If you do not have a wired monitored alarm system, get that first
2) Use Dahua starlight cameras or Hikvision darkfighter cameras if you need good low light cameras.
3) Start with a good variable focus camera, so you test for the correct lens,lighting, camera placement.
4) use a VPN to access home network (openVPN)
5) Do not use wifi cameras.
6) Do not use cloud storage
7) Do Not use uPNP, P2P, QR, do not open ports,
8) More megapixel is not necessarily better.
9) Avoid chinese hacked cameras (most ebay, amazon, aliexpress cameras(not all, but most))
10) Do not use reolink, ring, nest, Arlo, Vivint cameras (they are junk), no cloud cameras
11) If possible use a turret camera , bullet collect spiders, dome collect dirt and reflect light (IR)
12) Use only solid copper, AWG 23 or 24 ethernet wire. , no CCA (Copper Clad Aluminum)
13) use a test mount to verify the camera mount location. My test rig: rev.2
14) (Looney2ns)If you want to be able to ID faces, don't mount cams higher than 7ft. You want to know who did it, not just what happened.
15) Use a router that has openVPN built in (Most ASUS, Some NetGear....)
16) camera placement use the calculator... IPVM Camera Calculator V3
17) POE list PoE Switch Suggestion List
18) Camera Sensor size, bigger is general better Sensor Size Chart
19) Camera lens size, a bigger number give more range but less field of view. Which Security Camera Lens Size Should I Buy?
20) verify your camera placement, have a friend wearing a hoodie, ball cap and sunglasses looking down approach the house, can you identify them at night ?
21) DO NOT UPGRADE your NVR or camera unless you absolutely have a problem that needs to be fixed and known what you are doing, if you do you will turn it into a brick !!

Cameras to look at
IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED . Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+) - 4MP starlight
.................... Dahua IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED review
IPC-T5442TM-AS ..... Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ - 4MP starlight+
IPC-HDW5442t-ZE .... Dahua IPC-HDW5442T-ZE 4MP Varifocal Turret - Night Perfomance testing -- variable focus 2.7 mm-12mm 4 MP Starlight
IPC-B5442E-ZE ...... Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+ -- variable 2.7mm-12mm bullet
IPC-B5442E-Z4E .... bullet 8mm-32mm variable focus zoom 4MP
IPC-HFW7442H-Z ..... Review - Dahua IPC-HFW7442H-Z 4MP Ultra AI Varifocal Bullet Camera -- 4 MP variable focus AI

IPC-T2347G-LU ...... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera. (DS-2CD2347G1-LU)
IPC-HDW2231R-ZS .... Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal
IPC-HDW2231T-ZS-S2 . Review-OEM IPC-T2231T-ZS Ver 2, 2mp Varifocal Starlight Camera
IPC-HDW5231R-ZE .... Review-Dahua Starlight IPC-HDW5231R-ZE 800 meter capable ePOE
IPC-HFW4239T-ASE ... IPC-HFW4239T-ASE
IPCT-HDW5431RE-I ... Review - IP Cam Talk 4 MP IR Fixed Turret Network Camera
IPC-T5241H-AS-PV ... Review-OEM IPC-T5241H-AS-PV 2mp AI active deterrence cam
IPC-T3241-ZAS ...... Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal -- 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal
IPC-HFW2831T-ZS ... Review-Dahua IPC-HFW2831T-ZS 8MP WDR IR Bullet Network Camera -- 8MP Bullet 1/1.8” sensor variable focus.
DS-2CD2325FWD-I
N22AL12 ............ New Dahua N22AL12 Budget Cam w/Starlight -- low cost entry
IPC-T2347G-LU....... Review-Loryta OEM 4MP IPC-T2347G-LU ColorVu Fixed Turret Network 4mm lens & Junction Box -- 4MP ColorVu
.................... Review of the Hikvision OEM model IPC-T2347G-LU 'ColorVu' IP CCTV camera.

Other dahua 4MP starlight Dahua 4MP Starlight Lineup

My preferred indoor cameras
DS-2CD2442FWD-IW
IPC-K35A Review-Dahua IPC-K35A 3mp Cube Camera
IPC-K42A

If interested in Blue Iris and other setup items see the following post

Before asking a question search the forum first...
The best way to search the forum is to use Google
In the google search window enter.. site:ipcamtalk.com ?????? ..where ?????? is the items/terms you are interested in.
Example site:ipcamtalk.com PALE MOON BROWSER

Read,study,plan before spending money ..... plan plan plan
Doing it right the first time will save you money
Test do not guess
 

wittaj

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Here is the hint....a camera with AI for human and vehicles will just about knock out all false triggers....oh and BI is awesome

 
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