Legal Opinion: Cease and Desist

[Sybertiger]

I see my HOA just had the HOA attorney send me a Cease and Desist email. The email doesn't really say anything but I see they assigned a $7 charge to me for their services. I assume a letter was dropped in the mail. I'm not looking for legal advise here but rather legal opinion. So what was my infraction? I don't know until I receive the letter I assume is on it's way. However, I can tell you that I sent an opinion email to the homeowners in here regarding the HOA's attempt to raise HOA dues to what I would consider uncontrolled spending. There's a homeowner meeting tomorrow night where they are calling special meeting of the homeowners seeking a quorum to override the Board's 3% max cap on raising dues. They need a quorum of homeowners to raise the dues higher and they have already raised our dues the max 3% for this year but want to go higher.

Just some background info, I know a thing or two about the HOA's operations having served 9 years as HOA President in this community. Our budget over those years was about $39K per year but we always underspent and had a surplus of $11K per year on average. The new Board, which has only been there for 18 months, overspent last year by $14K and this year they are projecting a deficit of $19K. Basically we went from 9 straight years of a $11K surplus to a $19K deficit which means a $30K swing in 18 months for the worse. We had no improvements and we have no amenities so you can see why I'm not happy a sentiment expressed by many homeowners in here.

So, what did I communicate and how? An email sent out and a reference to a website I quickly threw together. I think they feel I might be in copyright violation but the HOA has no copyrighted material. There is a HOA logo I created 9 years ago for the purposes of us having one. I took and modified so it resembles the old HOA logo but again, it's not copyrighted and I am the original designer. I did post the Covenant and By-Law restrictions on the website since it's difficult for homeowners to find it on the property managers website. I did post the opinion letter I emailed on the website. I did post all the Board approved budgets and the accounting balance sheets going back 17 years of which I had in my possession as past HOA President. I believe homeowners have the right to ALL info such as budgets and the accounting balance sheets. I would find it odd to get a cease and desist letter for posting that.

The Board just installed plastic speed bumps in the community and I'd guess 30% of the homeowners like them and 70% hate them. I included my opinion about that in the letter too so I probably upset the Board about their new precious plastic speed bumps that don't work. When you poke the hornets nest I guess you should expect to get stung. Let me tell you, I thought some homeowners would send a nasty-gram back but to my surprise about 12 of the 127 emailed back to say they agreed with 100% of what I said. Then I got phone calls and visitors to also thank me.

So, any opinions here regarding any of what I said above? Should I be worried? Is this simply a bully tactic to silence me? I'd be happy to share the material posted on the website which includes the letter. Just kind of curious if any of you have been bullied like this before and what you did about it? I'm sure someone will pipe in with "you need to consult an attorney"....okay, but I'm just asking for opinions right now for shits and giggles.

 

[fenderman]

They are bulling you. Start a letter writing campaign explaining what you laid out to us. The 11k surplus vs 19k deficit. You are entitled to see what they are spending on and who is getting the gravy. This is one of the many reasons I would never buy in an HOA.

 

[john-ipvm]

the HOA has no copyrighted material. There is a HOA logo I created 9 years ago for the purposes of us having one.

....

it's not copyrighted and I am the original designer

Wouldn't you then be the copyright owner unless you agreed to assign it over to them?

Per the US government, "Copyright exists from the moment the work is created" and "registration is voluntary" "if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement "

 

[Sybertiger]

They are bulling you. Start a letter writing campaign explaining what you laid out to us. The 11k surplus vs 19k deficit. You are entitled to see what they are spending on and who is getting the gravy. This is one of the many reasons I would never buy in an HOA.

Yes, the letter I emailed and posted on my website explains all of the things regarding how things were and what's going on now. I'm going to remove identification info on it then post it for those who curious about what makes a HOA Board of Director piss in their pants. I just now see the Cease and Desist letter was attached to that email they sent. Let me see if I can sanitize it and post it.

 

[Sybertiger]

Wouldn't you then be the copyright owner unless you agreed to assign it over to them?

Per the US government, "Copyright exists from the moment the work is created" and "registration is voluntary" "if you wish to bring a lawsuit for infringement "

Yes, but the logo does have the name of HOA on it so I don't own the name. But let me see if I can sanitize it to show you what I'm talking about.

 

[Sybertiger]

Here is the Cease and Desist letter. I censored it which is clear from the substituted blue ink. We'll call it the SILLY PEOPLE HOA. Call me Joe Blow. The first logo shown is the modified one of the "official" logo I made 11 years ago. Again, not copyrighted. You can see I changed "Homeowners Association" to "Community Homeowners". I should mention that when I took over as HOA President there was zero transparency and no useful info. The property manager at the time owned SillyPeople.com and would not yield so I created SillyPeople.org as a Google website. The current Board let SillyPeople.org go by the wasteside and now when you go to SillyPeople.org you see a message about how it's parked. I put everything you would want to know on the website to give homeowners full transparency as to what we were doing and daily business of the HOA. Power to the people so to speak. I think the current Board wanted to go opaque so they could slitter about in the darkness. So the other day I created SillyPeople,net and this is what this the letter below is referring to.

 

[Sybertiger]

There's the letter. Gawd forbid the homeowners really see the financials to see how they are pissing money away. Let me post the video I made since afterall this is IPCAMTALK.

 

[wittaj]

You busted them so they are pulling on straws and hoping something sticks to shut you up.

If they provided a website that had this relevant info (even if locked to home owners only), you wouldn't need to have created the website.

Is there no HOA directory with that information readily available?

 

[Sybertiger]

Those eff-tards created a noise pollution issue in here. All day long, every lawn service with a trailer in tow. Really slows them down, huh?

 

[Sybertiger]

You busted them so they are pulling on straws and hoping something sticks to shut you up.

If they provided a website that had this relevant info (even if locked to home owners only), you wouldn't need to have created the website.

Is there no HOA directory with that information readily available?

There is a website that belongs to the property management company. You do need to register to get access to your account. This also allow you to see the Covenants and By-Laws. However, it's not like it's just sitting there on the front page of a community portal. You have to use a search engine to find the docs associated with your community and if you barely know how to use a computer then good luck. It was challenging for me to figure out where the docs were.

Regarding the approved annual budgets and the accounting balance sheets they do not provide that. They will provide this years approved budget but that's it. You can see those charts I created. They are based off of that data. But, there is no way a homeowner can figure out the history or figure out trends in spending to make a determination of if the Board has gone nuts. My charts just slap them in the face with reality. They may have a point is giving unlimited access to the public but what if someone wants to purchase in here. Maybe they'd like to see what's going on before committing.

The email addresses were personally collect by me by canvasing the community, door-to-door. I did this as HOA President because I was trying go to full transparency and I needed the ability to communicate with homeowners. Everything was done by letter before and it was inefficient and slow to communicate to homeowners.

Their claim is that I utilized work created by me as the President. However, keep in mind a HOA Board member is a volunteer and not a paid employee.

 

[Timokreon]

Get an attorney if you don't already have one. Opinions on here are exactly that.
Your appointed attorney can tell you what/when/where/how to proceed. If cost is a factor, tell the attorney. They have ways to recoup any fees associated with such matters.

 

[DavidW]

That's a lot of scare tactics they're using under the guise of ''Your website needs a disclaimer".

 

[fenderman]

I would respond and demand that they to stop using your logo. Ask the attorney to cite any document whereby you agreed not to make personal use of the emails provided to you while acting as president. Advise him that you will be combing through the boards activity including any and all expenditures (demand these records in writing). Explain that it is evident and clear on your website that you are no longer on the board or related to the association and you will make a disclaimer. Make it clear that you will not be backing down. You will continue exposing the board. One of the biggest issues with litigating with HOA is that the is generally a clause that provides that you are responsible for their attorney fees if you lose. I dont know how that clause is written but even if it exists, it may not apply to this particular situation. You may want to consult local counsel on that.

 

[Sybertiger]

Correct, the artwork was created from scratch by me, on my equipment and on my personal time. I was never an employee of the Silly People HOA, simply just a volunteer homeowner who decided I had enough of the HOA bullchit and cleaned it up. If they weren't going to fix it then I would and did. I had been a member of the community for 20 years and had never been to an HOA meeting when I became President.

It's been awhile since I filed anything with the US Patent/Trademark office....many, many years. Anyone recall the easiest/cheapest path to do that? Probably a better way to do it these days.

 

[fenderman]

Correct, the artwork was created from scratch by me, on my equipment and on my personal time. I was never an employee of the Silly People HOA, simply just a volunteer homeowner who decided I had enough of the HOA bullchit and cleaned it up. If they weren't going to fix it then I would and did. I had never been a member of the community for 20 years and had never been to an HOA meeting when I because President.

It's been awhile since I filed anything with the US Patent/Trademark office....many, many years. Anyone recall the easiest/cheapest path to do that? Probably a better way to do it these days.

As John pointed out, you dont need to register your copyright to receive copyright protection...You can assert your rights now. You will need to register if you actually want to file suit.

 

[Sybertiger]

As John pointed out, you dont need to register your copyright to receive copyright protection...You can assert your rights now. You will need to register if you actually want to file suit.

Curious to know the method or statement to assert my rights to the artwork I created? Is it simply to respond to the noted attorney on the C&D letter stating that I am the artist who created the logo. Further, that I was never commissioned to do the work by the HOA and have never assigned ownership to the HOA either in writing for verbally?

The fact is I created it and put it on the website and put the logo on some forms (I created) we used within the HOA when I was a Board member. Don't know if means the same thing as assigning ownership to them by using the logo while I was on the Board. Again, just curious about opinions on this. Attorney's provide opinions all day and everyday so consulting one is seeking his opinion that may or may not be correct.

 

[Sybertiger]

What's interesting is there was another HOA in FL far away that was registered by the name of Silly People Home Owner's Association, Inc. that predates my HOA which is Silly People Homeowners Association of Orlando, Inc. So technically, the logo I created did not contain the HOA name only a partial name shared by some other entity.

<<< ours


<<< Other HOA

 

[Sybertiger]

Don't know if we have any Domain Name registration experts here but another thing that is interesting is the website domain name the HOA claims is theirs is SillyPeople.org but I'm the original registrant. Somewhere I have a receipt from Google/GoDaddy showing I paid for the original registration. True that I gave the new Board the login credentials a few weeks after I left the Board. But, there was no formal agreement that I sold it to them or "gave" them access to the website indefinitely. I just figured they would continue to use it as needed for the benefit of homeowner. Looks like they paid the annual Domain Registration fee less than one year ago but I personally paid for it ALL the years going back to 2012. I did have the HOA reimburse me annually since they were using it for the website. Since they did not keep up their end of this by keeping the website going I wonder if I should demand they turn over the login credentials which they have changed so I don't have access to it. Not sure if my name is still showing as the "owner" since I originally registered it and there has never been an agreement to change the ownership from me to some other name.

 

[OICU2]

Don't know if we have any Domain Name registration experts here but another thing that is interesting is the website domain name the HOA claims is theirs is SillyPeople.org but I'm the original registrant. Somewhere I have a receipt from Google/GoDaddy showing I paid for the original registration. True that I gave the new Board the login credentials a few weeks after I left the Board. But, there was no formal agreement that I sold it to them or "gave" them access to the website indefinitely. I just figured they would continue to use it as needed for the benefit of homeowner. Looks like they paid the annual Domain Registration fee less than one year ago but I personally paid for it ALL the years going back to 2012. I did have the HOA reimburse me annually since they were using it for the website. Since they did not keep up their end of this by keeping the website going I wonder if I should demand they turn over the login credentials which they have changed so I don't have access to it. Not sure if my name is still showing as the "owner" since I originally registered it and there has never been an agreement to change the ownership from me to some other name.

View attachment 157055

I believe if you are still the registered owner of the domain (listed in the whois for contact info and registrant, your name, your email, your address), you can do what you want with it. If the ownership was transferred to them, things change and probably SOL.

 

[Sybertiger]

Something also interesting to note. The financial info they are terrified about me posting on my new website was already in the public domain. When I registered the SillyPeople.org website in 2012 then created content the Board agreed to make public the very financial info the new Board is attempting to block. That's right, every single one of those financial statements (approved annual budget) and the end of year balance sheet were posted in the public domain on that website. There was no attempt to prevent the public from accessing it and downloading it. Further, there was never any statement on the website that stated the info could not be downloaded. Seems to be "the bell was rung" and I don't think they can un-ring the bell since it was in the public domain since 2012 and annual info continued to be posted there every year. In fact, after I left the Board the info continue to remain available for many months. I probably should respond to the HOA attorney to advise him the info was already in the public domain and they cannot retrieve any rights to exclusivity.