I made the Reolink mistake

[pianoman]

Like many others on here, I made the mistake of purchasing a full set of Reolink cameras (mixture of RLC-820a and RLC-520a) to use with Blue Iris. I chose the Reolink cameras based on recommendations from 2 popular YouTubers, and while the quality of the cameras out of the box are acceptable to me, the compatibility with Blue Iris is quite the opposite. Another IPCT member said it best when they posted, "... I realize I made an error." A very expensive error. I just wish I had found this forum prior to planning out my system.

I ordered the cameras first, but due to a major winter storm affecting postal and parcel deliveries and the computer manufacturer losing my order, by the time I received the Blue Iris server and PoE switch and got it all setup the return window for the Reolink cameras had expired. So I've spent the last 2 months making adjustments, updating firmware, complaining, etc., all of which haven't helped yet. Just so I have "something" working I setup each of the cameras with only their substreams in Blue Iris but even that is choppy so it's clear to me now that choosing the Reolink cameras was indeed a mistake.

I contacted Reolink support and explained the situation. Their response: update to this new firmware. Ok, did that, and it actually made it worse (lower fps/key). I responded to them that it didn't fix the problem and asked them what exactly was changed in the new firmware, but I got no response to that question, and instead was asked why I wanted to manually adjust the iframe rate. Even though it seems like it might be a waste of time, I'm willing to continue to push for a resolution with Reolink since I can't get my money back (I guess it's possible but doesn't seem likely), so any advice for what to tell them in my emails back and forth would be very appreciated.

Meanwhile, I'm continuing to browse this forum to try all the different workarounds and optimization tips as I find them. I appreciate all the tips and suggestions already posted in other threads, and look forward to contributing to the community as well.

 

[wittaj]

Yep, just because someone on YouTube makes a video, they are the expert....who gets commission and views for recommendations...

Blue Iris and Reolinks do not work well together, but the same principles applies for almost any low end consumer grade camera. It is just Reolinks is one of the more consumer end cameras people buy and come to this site as to why it is pointed out often about. I have a cheapo camera for overview purposes so it doesn't matter, but it exhibits this same behavior even though in the settings I can set an iframe...

This was a screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS within the cameras (I suspect you will be missing motion that you do not know you are missing....):

Now look at they key - that is the iframes. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.

The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do AI Tools and it will be useless...

Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS (despite being set at 15FPS) with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue...

Blue Iris is great and works with probably more camera brands than most VMS programs, but there are brands that don't work well or not at all - Rings, Arlos, Nest, Some Zmodo cams use proprietary systems and cannot be used with Blue Iris, and for a lot of people Reolink doesn't work well either.

Now compare above to mine and cameras that follow industry standards that allow you to actually set parameters and they don't manipulate them. You will see that my FPS match what I set in the camera, and the 1.00 key means the iframe matches:

Return them and get some real cameras with true AI capability in them. Or upgrade to the latest BI with DeepStack AI integration...

After you review this thread and see real world examples, you will not be able to return those fast enough...and one of the posts towards the end talks about the "firmware" update....

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

This is an example from their marketing videos - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy any system that you cannot change the shutter speed or control any other parameter. Could this provide anything useful for the police? The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 

[mikeynags]

Too bad on the Reolink. Keep working on them, maybe you will be able to get a refund. Several folks on here have learned the same about Reolink that you are now learning. I made the mistake of purchasing one Reolink cam. I was drawn in by the cheap price and wanted to check it out. After putzing around for too long with it, I've since focused on nothing but Dahua and Hikvision when adding cameras to my BI setup.

Good luck trying to come to a resolution with tech support.

 

[Arjun]

I understand you made the Reolink mistake, may I ask why? (pun intended) Never put faith on YouTube, its all commission-based, period

 

[wittaj]

Yep, everyone is an expert on YouTube LOL...just remember many of those videos are by people being paid promotional dollars by a vendor and/or receiving revenue based on number of hits they get. In the past few months we have seen many people come here after being burned by hookup...

I would suggest finding the reviews for the cameras here. You will find much better examples here than out on YouTube. The members here put them through their paces. Most of the YouTube videos just use auto settings and many do not show motion, so the images look great. It is motion at night that we are interested in, and every review of cameras here have folks providing video clips of their camera in action at multiple settings and shutter speeds, etc. Auto settings results in blur and ghosts during motion and is useless.

Plus the YouTube videos tend to be full productions for the likes and thus YouTube revenue, where the folks here post videos for the sole sake of letting others know how well or not the cameras perform.

I think explain the whole shipment and weather delays to Reolink and demand a refund.

I F###ed up... the hook up...

So, after spending a good few hours here over the last day or so I realize I made an error. I like, many others it would seem found the videos from "The Hook Up" and jumped straight onto his review and purchased the ReoLink 820a to replace my horrendous Ring cameras. This was also my first...

ipcamtalk.com

dropped frame in recording & live view with only 1 camera and 1-5% CPU

hi, i'm new to blue iris and i tried the demo version to setup my first camera (RLC-820A latest firmware) following the Hook up video i have setup 2 stream in blue iris, 1 24/7 640x360@15fps recording and 1 AI motion detected 3840x2160@15fps. Both are setup direct to disk recording. In the live...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

I had one Reolink camera, an older 2MP on a 1/3" sensor, that is now in the local landfill. The only way I could get it to work, halfway well, in Blue Iris was to use the main stream and set the frame and bit rates as high as I could. That still didn't get the iframe, key frame, rate up to 1, but it did get close most of the time. So, try using the main stream at maximum bit and frame rates instead. Another thing is not to try using hardware acceleration, Quicksync or NVidia, with a Reolink camera.

 

[pianoman]

@wittaj - thanks for the reply. Yep, the iframe rate is my sole problem, I believe. Sometimes I get less than 0.25. Unfortunately I doubt I can return them unless Reolink decides to do what's right, but I have asked them for a refund if they can't provide a firmware that allows iframe rate to be manually adjusted.

Too bad on the Reolink. Keep working on them, maybe you will be able to get a refund.

I hope that they will decide to allow a refund well past the return window, but I'm not holding my breath. I also intend to continue to pursue some more tech support with them for at least a little while longer, until I just can't take it anymore. I don't have it in the budget to replace the cameras unless I can return or sell these. I did check into trying to sell them on eBay but the seller fees are ridiculous! I might as well take them to a thrift store and count it as a tax deduction. lol

I understand you made the Reolink mistake, may I ask why? (pun intended) Never put faith on YouTube, its all commission-based, period

Yep, everyone is an expert on YouTube LOL...just remember many of those videos are by people being paid promotional dollars by a vendor and/or receiving revenue based on number of hits they get.

At the time, I thought I was doing sufficient homework. I actually watched probably 10-15 different reviews of these particular Reolink models, and it all looked pretty good. Lesson learned though.

I would suggest finding the reviews for the cameras here. You will find much better examples here than out on YouTube. The members here put them through their paces. Most of the YouTube videos just use auto settings and many do not show motion, so the images look great. It is motion at night that we are interested in, and every review of cameras here have folks providing video clips of their camera in action at multiple settings and shutter speeds, etc. Auto settings results in blur and ghosts during motion and is useless. Plus the YouTube videos tend to be full productions for the likes and thus YouTube revenue, where the folks here post videos for the sole sake of letting others know how well or not the cameras perform.

I definitely appreciate all of the feedback and threads here. I'm slowly digesting all I can and making adjustments as I have time. I know the best course of action is to replace the cameras, but for now I want to do everything I can to make it work, with the understanding that I might be fighting a losing battle. Although I feel pretty defeated right now, I want to try to stay positive. Who knows, Reolink MIGHT come through and make some useful firmware changes, especially if all of us in the same boat complain to them and the ones who are still able to return their cameras do so. But if not, my plan B is to replace the cameras as soon as the budget allows.

 

[wittaj]

Given the collective experiences of everyone here that came here AFTER purchasing reolinks and being disappointed in the quality at night, many attempts have been made by members to make changes. The longer you go past the return window, the harder it will be to get them to accept a refund.

Did you see @austwhite post from within the past two weeks regarding the firmware:

"I know this is an older thread, and who knows if anyone will read to the end to see this anyway, but I want to put my experience with REOLINK in here and why I agree with all the negative reviews of REOLINK.

I have used 3 REOLINK cameras. 2 RLC-520, 5MP and a RLC-822A 8MP (3x optical zoom)

Firstly. There is virtually no difference in quality between the 5MP and 8MP cameras. This indicates poor quality sensors, or fake advertising. Only difference I saw was the 8MP was 16:9 and the 5MP was 4:3.

Secondly. I have ultimate proof REOLINK are LYING to everyone of their customers. Forget the iFrame controversy that has already been aired.

Today, 19 April 2021, I went to their Website to download "latest firmware" They advertise the firmware on the website as being a V3.x.x version released on 4 April 2021.

The downloaded file on ALL camera's that have this advertised firmware version and date (not just my one) is actually version 1.0.266 from 11 December 2020. They renamed the file to try and fool us, but the date stamp on the file creation still shows 11/12/2020. Who actually knows if this is even the right date for the firmware, it just happens to be the timestamp on the file....

Sure, REOLINK Support responds quickly, but they fact that EVERY firmware version on their download site is a lie is enough to make you not trust this company.

Add to this that the night vision is unusable and no adjustable iFrame interval and you can see why people on this forum have a dislike of REOLINK.

I gave them the benefit of good reviews on other sites and have regretted it. Sure, day time with bright light works well, but who is going to do something illegal in the middle of the day when there is bright light everywhere.........

Just my opinion but maybe it will help someone who may be slightly on the fence"

 

[pianoman]

I had one Reolink camera, an older 2MP on a 1/3" sensor, that is now in the local landfill. The only way I could get it to work, halfway well, in Blue Iris was to use the main stream and set the frame and bit rates as high as I could. That still didn't get the iframe, key frame, rate up to 1, but it did get close most of the time. So, try using the main stream at maximum bit and frame rates instead. Another thing is not to try using hardware acceleration, Quicksync or NVidia, with a Reolink camera.

Good idea! I’ll set that and see how it goes. I have hardware acceleration disabled already. Will report back.

 

[Arjun]

If you're going to buy something like a Reolink Camera, buy it from Amazon. Amazon can still help you even after the 30-day return period

 

[pianoman]

Amazon can still help you even after the 30-day return period

I got them from Amazon. I thought it was a done deal after the return period. But either way, I already disposed of the boxes they came in (yes, I know, stupid of me). Last time I trust a manufacturer to say “yes it’s compatible and we will stand behind our products.”

 

[mat200]

I got them from Amazon. I thought it was a done deal after the return period. But either way, I already disposed of the boxes they came in (yes, I know, stupid of me). Last time I trust a manufacturer to say “yes it’s compatible and we will stand behind our products.”

Welcome @pianoman

Suggest posting a review on Amazon sharing your experiences with as much facts as possible on it.

 

[Arjun]

You can return without the boxes they came in. Seriously. Were they shipped and sold by Amazon directly? If so, you still have a chance

I got them from Amazon. I thought it was a done deal after the return period. But either way, I already disposed of the boxes they came in (yes, I know, stupid of me). Last time I trust a manufacturer to say “yes it’s compatible and we will stand behind our products.”

 

[GeoffColl]

I've learnt the hard way Reolink are quick to offer advice to 'improve' situations, but often make it worse. I've just sent a malfunctioning 423 back, so they can improve for other customers! (continually defaults to factory settings) for a new one - that's gone somewhere out of the way and least important place!

Thanks to a certain kind person on here (ye ken who ye are), I have a couple of Dahua PTZs - no comparison with the Reolinks. I'm more into use for wildlife than security - though the latter is still served.

 

[looney2ns]

Initiate a charge back with your credit card company, on the basis of deceptive advertising.

 

[pianoman]

I adjusted all of the cameras to the highest FPS allowed (25) and that didn't really yield much improvement. Then I tried raising the max bitrate to the highest (8192), same result. I'm not sure if the H.264 profile should be set to Base, Main, or High, but I didn't notice any different in both picture quality or resource use with each of these settings.

Perhaps this is the wrong way to do it, but my desired outcome is to record the SD quality 24/7, and only motion-detected events in full HD. So with that premise I setup 2 BI cameras per physical camera. I learned from other posts here that not having the substream active on the main camera will cause issues so I added the substream to each HD camera. Then I started seeing massive no signal events on both the HD and SD streams. As you can see below, the top half are the HD streams with both a main and sub stream. The lower half are just the sub streams. Take a look at the no signal events (right column)! In 7 minutes I couldn't even get a screenshot without a no signal happening.



Main stream:


Sub stream:



The Reolink cameras do have built-in person and vehicle detection which seems to be fairly accurate, so I am ok with leveraging that for motion detection, assuming it works. I have the "Get ONVIF trigger events enabled", but I just enabled that so I haven't had a chance to fully test its reliability.

Regarding the return/refund process, I have asked Reolink directly for a refund if they are unable to provide appropriate firmware updates that actually do resolve the problem. I know that's a long shot but I want to give them the fair chance. I'll definitely leave an honest review as soon as either the issue is settled or I give up, whichever happens first. I'm going to see what Amazon customer service can do but since I don't have the original packaging for the cameras it doesn't look hopeful.

 

[wittaj]

But if the AI is fairly accurate but has no signal...what good is that?

Wow those FPS and key frames are all over the place. 3FPS and 0.11 KEY will miss most motion, and even if it does, it will be a blurry mess.

I suspect the "trick" @sebastiantombs mentioned worked on older units, but with the newer ones being higher resolution on crappy small sensors that are probably the same sensor as the lower resolution models, they need to play with the parameters even more to give a usable still image picture...because lets face it, the average consumer goes by what the still image picture looks like and the reolinks of the world have figured out how to make those look nice and bright...but that comes at the expense of video with motion at night...

And what you have now done is essentially doubled the cameras in BI which will use more resources (albeit probably not as much for substream), but the latest BI updates will record substream and then record mainstream when triggered, so you are not able to take advantage of that.

For all you know, those cams may not be able to have dual simultaneous logins to it and that is causing the issue as that is what you have essentially done with two cameras in BI is two logins.

Guess we gotta give you credit to try to turn lemonade out of lemons, but you will spend a lot more time dealing with this and still have at best mediocre results than forcing the return, credit card dispute, etc. and getting cameras that will do what you want.

Amazon doesn't care whether you have the original boxes or not - it simply goes into crates that people bid on. My friend bids on that stuff and resells it for normally a nice profit and he said half the time it is just the product with no boxes.

What is the quality of the video at night? Please post an example of motion at night - that alone should drive you to want to return them.

 

[pianoman]

Yes, they are all over the place, and they are all setup identically (with the exception of the group of (5) of the 4K cameras vs. (4) of the 5MP cameras).

So far I am getting the run around from both Reolink and Amazon. I have inquired to my credit card issuer on whether or not I can dispute the charges. I'll give it a few more days to negotiate because I really don't want to take a $700 loss, but after that I'm done. You're right - it's not worth wasting my time.

Here's what I get when I disable the second substream-only cameras, and with all 9 cameras set to 25fps.


...and here's a super helpful image of a car passing by. Out of all the footage I combed through, this one was the best.


I'll start looking for cameras to replace the Reolinks. I don't necessarily "need" 4K. The only reason I chose 4K in the Reolinks was for the 16:9 ratio and it had a slightly better digital zoom.

 

[wittaj]

Fingers crossed you get it resolved one way or the other...

Yeah - $700 and that is the best you get - that image is useless to the police. Is it a tank or a pickup or a vehicle or a UFO...really cannot tell.

Wow that is pathetic how much those cams are adjusting the parameters to give you a nice static image - I bet a static image with no motion looks great though!

It is simple, do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything other than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything other than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy 4k that is on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP...4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL).

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had the 4k fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police that got my neighbors all there stolen stuff back.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event he has started replacing his 4k cameras with 2MP cameras like mine after seeing my results - fortunately those cams work with his Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed and getting the right camera for the right location.

My other neighbor had reolinks and replaced those with Arlos after this event and then the next time his door was checked, he had even more useless video...the cost of both those systems could have got him a better system to start. As @looney2ns says - buy once, cry once. No dude here likes to have their property violated and the wife say "so you spent $1,000 on all that gear and we cannot tell if it were a male or female". Someone here posted that too after someone door checked, but I forgot who to give credit to.

 

[pianoman]

Adding an update for mine and others' reference in the future. By using the dual-stream setup instead of separate main and sub streams, I was able to achieve reasonably consistent fps/iframe rate, although with the iframe rate maxed out at 0.50 for the main stream and 0.25 for the sub stream. I understand that's the limitation of the Reolink cams and will not improve (see Reolink comment below), but at least the fps normalized a bit.



Unfortunately when motion is detected, the main stream doesn’t record properly and it just freezes during playback. The sub stream playback is still ok. I’m pretty sure this is a known issue with dual streams from the Reolink cams.

Reolink support is arguing with me that there is nothing wrong with their cameras and that they are "good cameras." They acknowledged that the inability to change the iframe rate is a hardware limitation that would NOT be addressed in any firmware updates (despite the fact that they sent me firmware updates before telling me this). They also suggested that I purchase a Reolink DVR that will work great with their cameras. What an insult.

I knew there was no point continuing to tweak the settings given the Reolink limitations, but I thought it would be good practice in navigating through and administering Blue Iris (and it was). Moving forward, I will be replacing them with some other cameras. I checked the cliff's notes and wow it's a lot to digest, but I don't want to deal with hacked firmwares etc. Obviously I don't want to spend more than I have to, but I'm willing to pay a little more for reputable cameras that I don't have to be concerned about. I just need a reliable camera that has good night vision and 1-way audio. What do you recommend?