How to connect dedicated computer connected to wired cameras to personal computer

Cat5Hurricane

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Seems like Blue Iris is recommended over running cameras to a NVR. I will have all my PoE cameras running to a junction box. There I had planned to have PoE switch and computer with hard-drive. A few questions (answer any that you can):
  1. What is ideal setup for dedicated desktop?
  2. Is there a brand (with specs) people think I should look our for during Black Friday?
  3. Can I get a Thinkpad Tiny Desktop or something smaller than cold hold up to 2 hard drives (I know Tiny Desktop can probably just hold one?)?
  4. Assuming yes to #2, could I configure a large internal drive and USB an external drive for backup and erase previous backups?
  5. This computer won't have a monitor as it will be hidden in a private place. How can I access it from another computer or phone?
  6. Assume I would need a monitor to set it all up to begin with?
  7. Will Blue Iris go on the dedicated computer or the computer I want to access footage/real time from?
  8. Is there a setting in Blue Iris to alert a predetermine phone number?
  9. People recommend to secure with VPN. Would that go on the dedicated computer or any computer accessing it?

    Some background, I will be setting up at least 9 cameras. From this page, I have learned not to focus on 4K cameras but will use those for my example. 9 cameras running 30fps@ 4K would take up 1.3 TB per day. So a 18TB HD (WE Purple Pro Surveillance HDD) would get filled up in 2 weeks. I won't be chasing 4K except for a couple spots where I have good lighting so I know with some good 2MB cameras, the HD should last longer than 2 weeks before re-writing. Excuse any of my naivety or lack of understanding...hence why I am here asking.
 

mat200

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Seems like Blue Iris is recommended over running cameras to a NVR. I will have all my PoE cameras running to a junction box. There I had planned to have PoE switch and computer with hard-drive. A few questions (answer any that you can):
  1. What is ideal setup for dedicated desktop?
  2. Is there a brand (with specs) people think I should look our for during Black Friday?
  3. Can I get a Thinkpad Tiny Desktop or something smaller than cold hold up to 2 hard drives (I know Tiny Desktop can probably just hold one?)?
  4. Assuming yes to #2, could I configure a large internal drive and USB an external drive for backup and erase previous backups?
  5. This computer won't have a monitor as it will be hidden in a private place. How can I access it from another computer or phone?
  6. Assume I would need a monitor to set it all up to begin with?
  7. Will Blue Iris go on the dedicated computer or the computer I want to access footage/real time from?
  8. Is there a setting in Blue Iris to alert a predetermine phone number?
  9. People recommend to secure with VPN. Would that go on the dedicated computer or any computer accessing it?

    Some background, I will be setting up at least 9 cameras. From this page, I have learned not to focus on 4K cameras but will use those for my example. 9 cameras running 30fps@ 4K would take up 1.3 TB per day. So a 18TB HD (WE Purple Pro Surveillance HDD) would get filled up in 2 weeks. I won't be chasing 4K except for a couple spots where I have good lighting so I know with some good 2MB cameras, the HD should last longer than 2 weeks before re-writing. Excuse any of my naivety or lack of understanding...hence why I am here asking.
Hi @Cat5Hurricane

We have a number of threads covering Blue Iris PCs and specs.

Most members looking to go for the most affordable have picked up used business class windows PCs with i5/i7 newer generation chips. ( SFF seems popular, as are HP and Dell used PCs ).

Do not go with the ultra small PCs .. they tend to use mobile CPUS and have less space for a 3.5" HDD

If you are looking for a new Windows PC during black friday, I would look for a new gen i5/i7 PC with enough room for 1 SSD and 1-2 3.5" HDDs ( minimum ).

It does not need to be a "gaming system" - just a decent business class PC is probably the most reliable.
 

Rob2020

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Most of what you are trying to do is not an issue. I have a separate PC isolated from my main home PC, simple with a network switch, yes I would want a monitor to configure. It sounds like you want to super secret hide this PC away and that may not be the best idea, you always need access for one thing or another. You can access real time through UI3 on a different PC on the network.

I would forget the 30FPS, shoot for a lower number like 20 FPS, you are not shooting a Hollywood movie.

It sounds like you are trying to do too much to quick. Start slow and build your skills, there is a lot to learn as you go.

Read the cliff notes in the wiki, build your system with one or two recommended cams and BI5 purchased here at the Ipcamtalk store.

You need to learn networking skills.

You need to understand the hardware end (switches, PCs, etc).
 

wittaj

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Seems like Blue Iris is recommended over running cameras to a NVR. I will have all my PoE cameras running to a junction box. There I had planned to have PoE switch and computer with hard-drive. A few questions (answer any that you can):
  1. What is ideal setup for dedicated desktop? Having the system only run BI and associated files. No gaming, Netflix, browsing, etc.
  2. Is there a brand (with specs) people think I should look our for during Black Friday? Go with refurb business class. Get what you can afford. Many make do with a 4th gen if that is all your budget can handle.
  3. Can I get a Thinkpad Tiny Desktop or something smaller than cold hold up to 2 hard drives (I know Tiny Desktop can probably just hold one?)? NO - those are designed to conserve power and will lower CPU cycles above all else. SFF or larger. Most go with Dell or HP.
  4. Assuming yes to #2, could I configure a large internal drive and USB an external drive for backup and erase previous backups? Most people fine USB drives suck for the amount of data that needs to pass. I tried it once for a live camera for storage and it couldn't keep up. I then tried it as a backup and it would go for days. Not worth it. If the event happened more than 2 weeks ago and you didn't notice it by now, you will not be reviewing all that old video...
  5. This computer won't have a monitor as it will be hidden in a private place. How can I access it from another computer or phone? Remote Desktop or UI3.
  6. Assume I would need a monitor to set it all up to begin with? To get the computer going yes. Do not use the Windows version that comes with the computer, Use the media creation tool to create a clean install that does not have bloatware on it.
  7. Will Blue Iris go on the dedicated computer or the computer I want to access footage/real time from? Blue Iris goes on the main computer for BI - think of this as your NVR. You access it via Remote Desktop or UI3.
  8. Is there a setting in Blue Iris to alert a predetermine phone number? Yes, you have a lot of options. Phone call, SMS, email, push, etc.
  9. People recommend to secure with VPN. Would that go on the dedicated computer or any computer accessing it? Most get an Asus router with OpenVPN on the router. Do not get a paid VPN.

    Some background, I will be setting up at least 9 cameras. From this page, I have learned not to focus on 4K cameras but will use those for my example. 9 cameras running 30fps@ 4K would take up 1.3 TB per day. So a 18TB HD (WE Purple Pro Surveillance HDD) would get filled up in 2 weeks. I won't be chasing 4K except for a couple spots where I have good lighting so I know with some good 2MB cameras, the HD should last longer than 2 weeks before re-writing. Excuse any of my naivety or lack of understanding...hence why I am here asking.
Follow every optimization wiki and you will have more than enough storage.

30FPS is overkill and is not needed - a waste of storage space and in many instances then the camera cannot keep up (even though it is rated at that, if you run the camera at all of its specs, it will struggle. 15FPS is more than enough for this type of activity.

Plus, movies on the big screen are shot at 24 FPS, so you do not need more than that.

If you do not get 4k on the 1/1.2" sensor, unless you have stadium quality light, a lessor MP camera will be better. Trust us on that.
See my comments in bold
 
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This is what most here find to be an acceptable sensor size and resolution for best day and night, the most important time, video -

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)
 

Cat5Hurricane

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This is what most here find to be an acceptable sensor size and resolution for best day and night, the most important time, video -

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)
thank you!! I will have great lighting around 3/4ths of the house, all on timers.

PS, I love the comparison to bullet size as it was a great mental visual...though I have never seen a 200 mm chain gun round. May have to add to the bucket list. :)
 

wittaj

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thank you!! I will have great lighting around 3/4ths of the house, all on timers.

PS, I love the comparison to bullet size as it was a great mental visual...though I have never seen a 200 mm chain gun round. May have to add to the bucket list. :)
You will be shocked how much light is needed to get into these little sensors. I have 33,000 lumen radiating off the front of my house and the camera thinks it isn't enough light and switches the camera to B/W. If I want to run color, I have to force it into color and slow the shutter down more than I would like.

If your field of view for the camera is intended to pickup anyone more than 10-15 feet from the camera, the camera will probably go to B/W, so if you want to force color, then it is best to get the biggest sensor available for the MP you are buying.

Put a 2MP and 4MP and 8MP on the same size 1/2.8" sensor and the 2MP will kick the 4MP and 8MP all night long.

The 4MP will need double the light and the 8MP will need quadruple the light to produce the same image at night.

An analogy to try to understand why cameras need so much more light - let's look at a 4MP camera and this 4MP needs at least twice the amount of light as a 2MP at night for the same sensor. The sensor size is the same in each camera, but when you spread the "screen" of 4MP worth of pixel holes across the same sensor, it now has double the holes, but also double the "screen material" than the 2MP. A 4K camera would need 4 times the light of a 2MP or double the light of a 4MP for the same sensor.

Kind of hard to explain, but lets try to use a window screen as an analogy - take a window where the opening is fixed - that is the sensor - you add a screen to it (that represents 2MP) and looking out through the screen is a little darker because of the screen material. Now replace that screen with one that has double the holes (now it represents 4MP) and it will be darker looking through it because (while the resolution would be better) there is more screen material. At night time, look out your window with and without the screen and it will be darker looking through the screen than without it. If you are looking out your window to see the stars or the moon, do you look out the part of the window with the screen, or the upper portion without the screen material? Now obviously as it relates to a camera, you need to balance the amount of pixel holes with the screen material - too few holes (and thus less screen material) and the resolution suffers, and too many holes (and thus more screen material) and the more light that is needed.

It is why many of us here say do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). At nighttime is when most of us want the camera to perform. Almost any camera can work with enough daylight.

2MP on 1/2.8" or bigger
4MP on 1/1.8" or bigger
8MP on 1/1.2" or bigger

If it doesn't meet that, then don't buy.
 

Cat5Hurricane

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You will be shocked how much light is needed to get into these little sensors. I have 33,000 lumen radiating off the front of my house and the camera thinks it isn't enough light and switches the camera to B/W. If I want to run color, I have to force it into color and slow the shutter down more than I would like.

If your field of view for the camera is intended to pickup anyone more than 10-15 feet from the camera, the camera will probably go to B/W, so if you want to force color, then it is best to get the biggest sensor available for the MP you are buying.

Put a 2MP and 4MP and 8MP on the same size 1/2.8" sensor and the 2MP will kick the 4MP and 8MP all night long.

The 4MP will need double the light and the 8MP will need quadruple the light to produce the same image at night.

An analogy to try to understand why cameras need so much more light - let's look at a 4MP camera and this 4MP needs at least twice the amount of light as a 2MP at night for the same sensor. The sensor size is the same in each camera, but when you spread the "screen" of 4MP worth of pixel holes across the same sensor, it now has double the holes, but also double the "screen material" than the 2MP. A 4K camera would need 4 times the light of a 2MP or double the light of a 4MP for the same sensor.

Kind of hard to explain, but lets try to use a window screen as an analogy - take a window where the opening is fixed - that is the sensor - you add a screen to it (that represents 2MP) and looking out through the screen is a little darker because of the screen material. Now replace that screen with one that has double the holes (now it represents 4MP) and it will be darker looking through it because (while the resolution would be better) there is more screen material. At night time, look out your window with and without the screen and it will be darker looking through the screen than without it. If you are looking out your window to see the stars or the moon, do you look out the part of the window with the screen, or the upper portion without the screen material? Now obviously as it relates to a camera, you need to balance the amount of pixel holes with the screen material - too few holes (and thus less screen material) and the resolution suffers, and too many holes (and thus more screen material) and the more light that is needed.

It is why many of us here say do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). At nighttime is when most of us want the camera to perform. Almost any camera can work with enough daylight.

2MP on 1/2.8" or bigger
4MP on 1/1.8" or bigger
8MP on 1/1.2" or bigger

If it doesn't meet that, then don't buy.
Super helpful as I assumed the light I have would be sufficient (I am nowhere near 33k lumen). Hence why I greatly appreciate your responses. To your comment "If your field of view for the camera is intended to pickup anyone more than 10-15 feet from the camera, the camera will probably go to B/W, so if you want to force color, then it is best to get the biggest sensor available for the MP you are buying", what camera is going to give me the biggest sensor available for the larger MP? I was going to go after the one you recommended for license plates (two of these) but the rest will obviously have other primary functions. So, I live in a very safe and nice neighborhood. Security cameras are more for peace of mind and bragging rights, rather than need to catch potential threats. But I would also like them to catch that threat in the off chance it happens. My plan is to buy everything BF to Cyber Monday to save on costs, but I don't mind putting some money into a nice system. I just want to make sure I buy right the first time and have no buyer's remorse later
 

wittaj

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if you go with what I recommended previously, then you will be fine.

I just wanted to point out your comment "I won't be chasing 4K except for a couple spots where I have good lighting" that you would be surprised how much light is needed and didn't want you to think you could purchase one of the 4k cameras around $100 that is on the 1/3" sensor as it's 2.8mm counterpart on the same sensor will kick its butt all night long.

If you want 4K, then go with the 4K/X, but recognize that it is either a 2.8mm or 3.6mm camera, so don't expect it to IDENTIFY at 50 feet out.

The key is to learn from the folks here. You are spending a good chunk of money, and the last thing you want is a system that at best can tell the police what time it happened. And that is all that happens to most that have cameras because they get consumer cams and expect too much from them.
 

Cat5Hurricane

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if you go with what I recommended previously, then you will be fine.

I just wanted to point out your comment "I won't be chasing 4K except for a couple spots where I have good lighting" that you would be surprised how much light is needed and didn't want you to think you could purchase one of the 4k cameras around $100 that is on the 1/3" sensor as it's 2.8mm counterpart on the same sensor will kick its butt all night long.

If you want 4K, then go with the 4K/X, but recognize that it is either a 2.8mm or 3.6mm camera, so don't expect it to IDENTIFY at 50 feet out.

The key is to learn from the folks here. You are spending a good chunk of money, and the last thing you want is a system that at best can tell the police what time it happened. And that is all that happens to most that have cameras because they get consumer cams and expect too much from them.
You mentioned 4k/X in a previous message and I googled it and couldn't find anything. Can you provide more information?
 

wittaj

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Here you go:


and



4K/X is @EMPIRETECANDY name for the Dahua DH-IPC-HFW5849t-ASE-LED - easier to remember than that alphabet soup lol.
 

Cat5Hurricane

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Here you go:


and



4K/X is @EMPIRETECANDY name for the Dahua DH-IPC-HFW5849t-ASE-LED - easier to remember than that alphabet soup lol.
Thank you again! What are your thoughts about 4K/X for 1, 3, 5-9 (5 will be pretty dark area) and 5241-Z12E for 2 and 4 for LPR cams? I will mount ~8 feet per your suggestion (the cat5e are at 12 feet and I have enough length). Do I need to wrap where Cat5e plugs into camera to protect from rain? I will find a rated POE switch, feed to business class computers you recommended above, running blue iris (and other add ons to think about)? The important thing for me is to take advantage of any black friday sales tomorrow. I feel very comfortable watching youtube videos and reading the wiki for setting everything up (I build my first computer years ago with no knowledge or work on cars at the house this way). I don't have the knowledge today but if I have the tools ready, I feel very comfortable setting everything up.


1637768970897.png
 

wittaj

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So do keep in mind the the 4k/x is a great camera, but it does need light - either the LED white light from the camera or house lights. Some homeowners do not like the white LED coming off the camera, but if you are ok with that or you have enough house lighting outside, then it is a great choice for the close proximity perimeter coverage around the house. But if you do not want the white LED glow of the camera lighting up the place, then a camera with infrared is a better choice. Personally I do not find the LED on this camera annoying like some of the other LED cameras out there. It doesn't need to be on full-blast like some other LED cameras I have, so it can appear more like accent lighting. But that light is there.

You always want to waterproof. At a minimum dielectric grease, provided waterproofing sleeve, and self-vulcanizing tape. You do not want the connection exposed (and the waterproofing sleeve they provide isn't good enough by itself). You may want to consider a junction box to put the connection in, or some have simply shoved it back into the wall.

The LPR cameras may have the camera pointing a certain way for illustration purposes, but without seeing the actually layout, I would think you would want #2 to be pointing to the left and #4 to the right.
 

Cat5Hurricane

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So do keep in mind the the 4k/x is a great camera, but it does need light - either the LED white light from the camera or house lights. Some homeowners do not like the white LED coming off the camera, but if you are ok with that or you have enough house lighting outside, then it is a great choice for the close proximity perimeter coverage around the house. But if you do not want the white LED glow of the camera lighting up the place, then a camera with infrared is a better choice. Personally I do not find the LED on this camera annoying like some of the other LED cameras out there. It doesn't need to be on full-blast like some other LED cameras I have, so it can appear more like accent lighting. But that light is there.
Are the lights always on at night? Can you set them to turn on when they detect movement as large as an animal or human?
 

wittaj

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Are the lights always on at night? Can you set them to turn on when they detect movement as large as an animal or human?
They need to be on all night or the image is just black. They are not motion sensor lights. And if they were, then the camera would get blinded momentarily as the light kicks on - just long enough to miss a good capture.

Cameras work best with a consistent light source. Not many of us here operate them with motion sensor lights. So either leave lights on for color or go B/W with infrared.
 
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Cat5Hurricane

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They need to be on all night or the image is just black. They are not motion sensor lights. And if they were, then the camera would get blinded momentarily as the light kicks on - just long enough to miss a good capture.

Cameras work best with a consistent light source. Not many of us here operate them with motion sensor lights. So either leave lights on for color or go B/W with infrared.
If they are always on, will they get swarmed by bugs in the summer? Do these have IR or just these lights for this camera?
 
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