Help: what cam do i need? Turret, bullet, dome, ptz, etc

Kraga

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Hi guys,

Hope everybody is doing well. Got a few questions. Hope you can help me out. I attached pics of the area I want to cover. Mainly it's a public sidewalk at the side of my house. Meaning lots of people walking during summer. The sidewalk has light posts in the front and middle where my property ends. I would like to monitor people coming from the back light post (pics taken at night time) with clarity and be able to zoom the faces clearly when played back to the nvr. The pic taken at daytime is covered by 4mp mini dome which I will upgrade to what you guys recommend. Installation of this new camera will be around 10 feet above or more because of the fence with the sun rising at the same area. What kind of camera can you guys strongly recommend for my situation so people walking will clearly know that they are being recorded 24/7?

My setup right now is a hikvision 7600 nvr with 2two 4mp mini dome camera (hikvision) covering front entrance and front garage area. 1 dahua 2mp ptz covering left side of my property. I'm hoping the new camera models that you guys will recommend can work with my nvr since this nvr is already 2yrs old and might not work with the new cam with AI and such.

If there is any more details I missed out please tell me. Thanks in advance for your help.
 

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Kraga

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I narrowed it down to Turret style camera. Looking at 5442t ze or 5831 ze. What do you guys think? will be putting it at 9ft high to be able to at least have good shot of facial recognition. I'm hoping the two light post will give it enough light.
 

wittaj

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Stay with the 4MP. Do not chase 8MP

9ft high is too high - all you will get are top of heads. and hoodies. Go lower if you can, even on the fence if possible. My neighbor did that at 4feet and the sidewalk is just as close or closer than yours and in the years he has had cameras there, they have never been bothered. And they get great shots because if someone is looking down, the cameras still get it.

By facial recognition you mean visibly see them correct? Facial recognition itself in the cameras are not ready for primetime except in bright situations where someone has to clearly walk in front of the camera at close range.

Also keep in mind that all the features may not work with a Hik NVR - general rule of thumb is to match camera and NVR manufacturers. It might work, but some of the search features for AI may not.
 
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SouthernYankee

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If you have a Hikvision NVR, stick with Hikvision cameras. It is recommended to NOT mix NVRs and cameras from different manufactures, you may lose camera features. I know absolutely nothing about Hikvision cameras for outside installs.

The goto cameras should have 1/1.8 sensors and are 4MP.

DS-2CD2347G1-LU
 
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Kraga

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Stay with the 4MP. Do not chase 8MP

9ft high is too high - all you will get are top of heads. and hoodies. Go lower if you can, even on the fence if possible. My neighbor did that at 4feet and the sidewalk is just as close or closer than yours and in the years he has had cameras there, they have never been bothered. And they get great shots because if someone is looking down, the cameras still get it.

By facial recognition you mean visibly see them correct? Facial recognition itself in the cameras are not ready for primetime except in bright situations where someone has to clearly walk in front of the camera at close range.

Also keep in mind that all the features may not work with a Hik NVR - general rule of thumb is to match camera and NVR manufacturers. It might work, but some of the search features for AI may not.
@wittaj Yes, visibly see them. If I was to let's say buy the 5442t ze and use an sd card for recording. can I still use all of it's features for AI and such be retained by using its app on the phone? All features will be setup using internet explorer. Recorded to the card and when it sees something notify me to the dahua app.

Reason i like dahua is it's versatility with its viral focal lense with the 5442t ze. I can set focal length and forget about it while maintaining optimal visibility to the object. Still lost at what focal view I need if ever I go fixed lense

Attached is the pic of the side of my house. First cam installed on the right side and second cam installed left side ( last bump out). 2nd pic with circle on the right I can install cam side by side but not optimal to visibly see culprit faces for the second cam unless I zoom to max (I think).
 

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wittaj

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Yes, you can set up the camera to record based on AI. All of this will be setup via the camera GUI with internet explorer. And then you setup the notifications as you see fit.

I prefer the varifocals just because we always end up wanting more zoom. These cameras are not like the movies and TV where they can take a grainy surveillance camera image and zoom in digitally and make anything out. The only way to zoom in and get clean images is optically with a varifocal and not digitally after the fact.

IF you could get it on the fence you would get the clean captures. Otherwise you will need to stretch out the distance you are pointing the camera at to minimize the angle to get a clear shot of a face. The turret may be sufficient, or you may prefer the bullet Z4E.

I'd suggest buy one camera and test it at each location and ensure it is getting you what you want to cover.
 
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Yes, you can set up the camera to record based on AI. All of this will be setup via the camera GUI with internet explorer. And then you setup the notifications as you see fit.

I prefer the varifocals just because we always end up wanting more zoom. These cameras are not like the movies and TV where they can take a grainy surveillance camera image and zoom in digitally and make anything out. The only way to zoom in and get clean images is optically with a varifocal and not digitally after the fact.

IF you could get it on the fence you would get the clean captures. Otherwise you will need to stretch out the distance you are pointing the camera at to minimize the angle to get a clear shot of a face. The turret may be sufficient, or you may prefer the bullet Z4E.

I'd suggest buy one camera and test it at each location and ensure it is getting you what you want to cover.
I 2nd the suggestion of varifocals. One thing I have learned from buying 20+ cameras...I move them around here or there for different purposes. I have fixed 2.8mm's that I wish now were varifocals.
 
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Though it is highly recommended to have cameras around 6' height for facial identification, sometimes that placement does not work due to obstructions. That means, you will have to put the camera higher which then means you need more zoom/focal length for the angle of attack, per se. Higher up the camera is, further out the camera has to reach. I have a Dahua varifocal that does 8mm-32mm 5442 that I can barely make out faces at 150' range being 18'-20' high. As Andy told me from the start, this camera is best suited for 100'. But I did not need facial ID at 150', just human detection AI (which is does flawlessly).
 

Kraga

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Hi guys,

hope everybody is doing well. Just a few more questions. Also, thanks for the helpful replies. Have bought a 5442tze and currently testing and upgrading software. Will be using testrig v2 that someone posted here for proper placement and height. As you can see on the pic im planning on installing this on a stucco which I will drill hole going to the basement where my switch is located. My question is since there is no room behind the turret to hide cable will be needing a junction box to seal connections. Will any pvc junction box from Home Depot will do? and run pvc conduit and fittings (smallest size?) to the hole going to the basement for clean install Or since its outdoor rated cable don't use any conduit???

My test area will be at the 2nd bump out area of the pic for now. If I do need another cam will be installing 2nd cam on the first bump out. The lines is where the cable can go and the circle is where I need to drill a hole. For best cable run, I think I need to put it between the bump outs. In here, if ever need another cam the run will also be short and clean looking out side. What you guys think? Middle hole with PVC conduit or just bare Ethernet cable with the pvc junction box to seal connections? InkedInked20210219_123341_LI.jpg
 

wittaj

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Glad to hear you will do testing prior to installing! With that fence, you need to make sure you get the right location to cover what you want!

You will get different opinions regarding what to do with the wiring. Some will say a junction box made for the camera, some will say that box from home depot will do, others will say just shove it back in the wall. I have done all 3 LOL. The key is to make sure it is watertight whichever route you go.

If you run the ethernet without PVC conduit, make sure it is outdoor rated which is sounds like you have. UV will degrade it otherwise - is it 2 years or 10 years or never nobody knows for sure. Depends on the location.
 

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I'd order the proper junction box from Andy. I think the PFA130 will work. Yes, it adds about an inch and a half to the overall height of the camera, but it's important to protect the RJ45 connector from weather/water. Use a small dab of dielectric grease when you plug it in, the cable glan that comes with the camera, warp with rubberized, self amalgamating tape like Coax Seal then wrap with a couple of layer of quality electrical tape like 3M 33+ or 88.
 
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Also a consideration:
you COULD use 3/4" metal EMT conduit to rise out from your basement penetration (I use metal 4"x4" boxes with a blank ring plate for any of my outdoor penetrations) to rise up to that dark colored trim (I assume, wood trim?) and not strap the EMT for that 10' length in the middle area. Might be a little shaky in the middle area but eh....saves from stucco holes :) Granted, not that big of a deal to fill in stucco holes later on. 3/4" metal EMT is more rigid by far than PVC or 1/2" EMT.
If you attach the cameras to the same dark colored trim, you might have space between that fascia trim board and wall to hid your RJ45 connector boot.
Like Sebastian says above, dielectric grease is a must. I got the extra mile and also use 3" waterproof shrink tubing around the connector boot.
 
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