Direct orders from Europe - more information is needed for new customers

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
After searching this forum for hours, I concluded that Andy might be losing potential customers. And that it would be helpful to have some FAQ about ordering importing from Andy (by location). Let me elaborate briefly:
I've searched countless threads in this forum regarding shipment to europe today. I found many threads with enquiries and some fragmented answers by members or Andy.
The problem is, that a potential customer will like to know what this product will cost him in the end. And this is actually rather complicated to figure out atm.

Assume I use his Aliexpress store. Aliexpress charges me a price that includes free shipment and VAT. So when it reaches Europe, it should just go straight to the buyer without trouble UNLESS it is an item requiring cutoms duty. (Remember, Vat should already be paid through the seller)
The items will have a customs reference number which will decide if it is duty free (ipads would be such) or if they require tax-duty (some photographic lenses would). I actually got in touch with customs but the guy I talked to told me, that without the item customs-number he can't tell me if and how much duty there will be on top of VAT. But only if the parcel exceeds 150€ incl VAT and shipment. For the US readers: VAT is around 20% in europe. And duty could be as much as 17% iirc. This percentage (0%? to 17%?) is probably the same for all security cams. It could be communicated perhaps in form of an "import experience thread". Andy's items will likely fall into only a few categories.

When I searched european websites, there are several reports that people buying from Andy-Aliexpress were charged VAT again at the door when the package arrived, despite the statement that it was already included in the initial payment. Some then claim that they got the extra payment back from Aliexpress. Actually, the customs officer I talked to told me the same. Sounds acceptable, but wait...
The mail delivery charges extra for charging. So if they think they should collect 20% VAT again, they charge you another lump of cash for their collection service. Various sources talk of $8-$40, depending who knocks at your door. Another information that would be useful: What to ship with and what not?

When I contact Andy for a price, he replies quickly, friendly, patiently and is very helpful. But I still don't understand exactly if or if not his prices already includes the VAT for importing the article. In other words, does he create an IOSS number for import to europe? This would have to be done by the seller if I'd place an order to him through Aliexpress.

In most threads, when people enquired about all this, they get the quick answer from members that Andy is reliable, that he ships quickly, that his stuff works and all. But that isn't really the issue I am after. These are the reasons why people would consider trying Andy in the first place and not another store. The question now is not so much how quickly it gets here but how the deal it set up and what will happen when it gets here? If I pay him $100 for a cam & shipment, will it cost me $100 in the end? Or $100+$20+$17$+$15 = $153? That adds up...

I found several threads that tried to inquire and then suddenly ended. I am not sure as to why. All might have gone well but the buyer never reported back? He never made the purchase, gave up, too uncertain?

My suggestion is this: The problem could be tackled from both ends. Andy could provide some information. (in some forum sticky perhaps?) Does he create an IOSS number if europeans buy from him? So we know if this ~20% VAT is included or not and if we should expect this cam to arrive at our door without extra cost or not. Does it matter if he ships from EU stores or from Hong Kong?

And as customers we should provide some feedback about the import. How did it work? Did I pay only $100 or did it get more expensive? What was the actual problem? And this should be easy to find, so other new customers will have an idea what to expect and not go elsewhere and buy Reolink. If such information already exists, it should be more visible.

Thank you for reading.
 
Last edited:

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,433
Reaction score
47,556
Location
USA
Suffer from paralysis by analysis much LOL (just giving you a hard time, but wow do you dig deep into the weeds on it seems every post you start LOL):lmao:

We have tons of members from Europe that purchase from Andy. Either they don't get charged the VAT or even with the VAT they determined that the quality of the camera image is better than the Reolinks (which you did do a test comparison and concluded the same in this thread).

You mentioned in that thread that you tested Andy's 5442 turret - so how did you get your hands on it and were you charged VAT?
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
Have you communicated any of the above with Andy?
I am doing it right now. Do you happen to know if we have such information already? I have asked him about VAT, duty etc. but I don't really understand his answer. I am not a native speaker. I spend an afternoon figuring out the regulations here, talked to the customs office, searched for buyer feedback and all. But most of these questions would require user feedback too.
I would actually like to buy stuff and I am quite willing to feed back information (as to how the import went) to this forum for the benefit of others.

You mentioned in that thread that you tested Andy's 5442 turret - so how did you get your hands on it and were you charged VAT?
I bought it through Amazon. VAT was included in the price shown by Amazon.
 

looney2ns

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Sep 25, 2016
Messages
15,521
Reaction score
22,657
Location
Evansville, In. USA
Sending Andy an email to order cameras can do wonders to alleviate VAT and other garbage fees for you. He can provide the amounts prior to your actual order.
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
Sending Andy an email to order cameras can do wonders to alleviate VAT and other garbage fees for you. He can provide the amounts prior to your actual order.
I have asked him several times, but I don't really understand what he tells me. I am new to this, he does it every day. That is a classical communication problem. So I searched the forum to find answers here. What I did find were similar questions by potential customers. Everytime I thought: Great, this is what I want to know... and then the thread ends without result or feedback.
Basically, I follow your signature advice: Study and Plan before spending money. Forum search is your friend.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,433
Reaction score
47,556
Location
USA
I am doing it right now. Do you happen to know if we have such information already? I have asked him about VAT, duty etc. but I don't really understand his answer. I am not a native speaker. I spend an afternoon figuring out the regulations here, talked to the customs office, searched for buyer feedback and all. But most of these questions would require user feedback too.
I would actually like to buy stuff and I am quite willing to feed back information (as to how the import went) to this forum for the benefit of others.


I bought it through Amazon. VAT was included in the price shown by Amazon.
OK so you bought thru Amazon and the price INCLUDED the VAT charge. So if it said $100 you paid $100 and not +$20+$17$+$15 = $153?

You will find ordering from him direct is cheaper (or same as Amazon to some parts of the world). If it isn't then he will direct you to purchase from the Amazon site.

Some cameras I have bought from him direct and others he told me to order direct from Amazon because it would be cheaper.

OMG so you have actually talked to customs office about this. Yep paralysis by analysis LOL.

There is a saying here that is probably applicable there - if you call a permitting office, they will tell you that you need a permit.

Want to hold a garage sale, just put up a sign and have at it. But if you call the building department and ask if you need a permit, they will charge you $25 to hold that garage sale LOL. Call the IRS and ask if you have a garage sale do you need to report that as income and the answer will be yes and you will get audited LOL.

Some departments have a generic catch all non-descriptive name permit for people that call and ask "do I need a permit for". They call it internally the overly-anal property owner permit LOL.

Now granted there could be a communication gap between your native language and Andy and that could be some of the confusion, so either just buy from Amazon where you know what the price will be or try it on a smaller item like a junction box and see what happens.

But Andy has been doing this a long time - if VAT wasn't included in the price you pay Andy, I think this site would be full of that complaint.
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
I guess we can conclude that some things we do differently. I am very greatful for the help you and others have provided to me several times. But there is no need to insult me, just because I live in a place way more regulated than you do.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,433
Reaction score
47,556
Location
USA
With LOL on it, it isn't intended as an insult. It is some good natured teasing or ribbing. You have been here long enough to know that this can happen on this site LOL. Do they not have teasing in Europe or is it a regulation that everything is serious all the time LOL. :lmao:

For being the land of the free, you would be surprised how much we are regulated....

You have to admit you over analyze and I think most here would agree with that based on your posts. Nothing wrong with that (and sometimes we do learn something from that) and most of us fall in that same category to some extent, but at some point I have to make a decision or be stuck in paralysis by analysis mode LOL.

It took me awhile of researching before I was comfortable buying from Andy. My mentality was how could some random dude on the internet sell stuff better than I am buying at Best Buy and MicroCenter LOL. At some point I had to take that leap of faith and made my first purchase on Amazon so if everyone here was blowing smoke up my @$$ I could do a simple free return that is even less hassle than a return to Best Buy.
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
It took me awhile of researching before I was comfortable buying from Andy.
I think you get something wrong: Atm I have absolutely no worries to buy from Andy. As you can see, my questions do not aim at warranty, exchange policy, support, quality.... I can read. All that is easily searchable.
But I like to know what something will cost me in the end. So I can decide if it is worth it to me.
 

garycrist

Known around here
Joined
Sep 25, 2021
Messages
2,274
Reaction score
6,695
Location
Texas
Didn't Andy announce no more shipments from Aliexpress last week ?
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,433
Reaction score
47,556
Location
USA
I think you get something wrong: Atm I have absolutely no worries to buy from Andy. As you can see, my questions do not aim at warranty, exchange policy, support, quality.... I can read. All that is easily searchable.
But I like to know what something will cost me in the end. So I can decide if it is worth it to me.
You missed my point - my example was an analogy showing my paralysis by analysis.

Are you comfortable with the price you got from Amazon? If so then just go with that or wait until one of Andy's sales where the Amazon price is the same as the direct price. Plus with the ever changing Dahua Policies, it may end up being Amazon as the only way to purchase so this could all be a moot point soon.

And like I mentioned, the world is full of complainers, so if members here were getting screwed over in VAT fees they would be quick to complain here. The fact that your research here shows nothing to that affect should mean folks are happy with their direct purchases.
 
Last edited:

Dadoxy

n3wb
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Messages
7
Reaction score
11
Location
Croatia
During the 2023 EmpireTech Spring Sales, I bought IPC-Color4K-T via Aliexpress. The price was 199,9€ and it was clearly marked on the page that the price is without tax.
Andy made an extra effort to keep the tax costs as low as possible.
Unfortunately, the intelligence of customs officials seems to have increased in recent years and I paid an additional 82€ for customs and VAT.
The next camera I'm thinking of buying will definitely be through Andy again but I hope over Amazon.de! :)
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
And like I mentioned, the world is full of complainers, so if members here were getting screwed over in VAT fees they would be quick to complain here. The fact that your research here shows nothing to that affect should mean folks are happy with their direct purchases.
I can't tell for the US. Afaik, prices in the US don't show vat, it is added later. So maybe you guys are just used to vat being added later. And generally, anyone in china can send something here without paying VAT first. Then the buyer would have to pay it. That is not possible for platforms such as Aliexpress, they must collect VAT. As I said before, I don't have the knowledge on how this works. I try to collect that knowledge.
 
Last edited:

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
24,433
Reaction score
47,556
Location
USA
During the 2023 EmpireTech Spring Sales, I bought IPC-Color4K-T via Aliexpress. The price was 199,9€ and it was clearly marked on the page that the price is without tax.
Andy made an extra effort to keep the tax costs as low as possible.
Unfortunately, the intelligence of customs officials seems to have increased in recent years and I paid an additional 82€ for customs and VAT.
The next camera I'm thinking of buying will definitely be through Andy again but I hope over Amazon.de! :)
Yeah, that adds another factor is the potential inconsistency of customs.

In that case, I would simply purchase from Amazon then if they are not going to be subject to the same regulations.
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
The price was 199,9€ and it was clearly marked on the page that the price is without tax.
Thanks for the info. If I look at the Empiretech Aliexpress store, I see this cam and it states right beneath the price "inkl. MWST" (incl. VAT). If I scroll way down, it says all taxes and duty are on the buyer. Hmm?

I paid an additional 82€ for customs and VAT.
How did they arive at 82€? VAT would be 50€ (Croatia 25%). Did the the mail service charge you for collecting the VAT? And what customs duty was actually applied?

In that case, I would simply purchase from Amazon then if they are not going to be subject to the same regulations.
Croatia is in the EU, should be fine. But amazon.de only carries 4 andycams total. And amazon UK is no longer in the EU...
 
Last edited:

Dadoxy

n3wb
Joined
Jan 21, 2022
Messages
7
Reaction score
11
Location
Croatia
Thanks for the info. If I look at the Empiretech Aliexpress store, I see this cam and it states right beneath the price "inkl. MWST" (incl. VAT). If I scroll way down, it says all taxes and duty are on the buyer. Hmm?

How did they arive at 82€? VAT would be 50€ (Croatia 25%). Did the the mail service charge you for collecting the VAT? And what customs duty was actually applied?


Croatia is in the EU, should be fine. But amazon.de only carries 4 andycams total. And amazon UK is no longer in the EU...
If you click on the buy button before the final purchase confirmation, the price is reduced by the amount of VAT.
VAT was 49,98€ and customs duty was 32,25€.
I hope that Andy will expand the offer on amazon.de! :)
 

Perimeter

Getting comfortable
Joined
Feb 18, 2023
Messages
557
Reaction score
581
Location
Europe
If you click on the buy button before the final purchase confirmation, the price is reduced by the amount of VAT.
VAT was 49,98€ and customs duty was 32,25€.
I hope that Andy will expand the offer on amazon.de! :)
Man, you are really helpful! VAT is what was to be expected (sky high where you live...) But that is nearly 17% duty. Do you get away with no duty if your order incl shipment is under 150€?
 
Top