Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

[EMPIRETECANDY]

Andy, did you send this guy a camera? He tested one of yours in his last video:

actually i don't know he bought the cams from us till a member here send me the link on youtube. I focus on the product mainly everyday, too much work to follow, the new product, the bugs on currently firmware, testing work.

 

[Shap]

I installed two Reolink systems for observing indoor shooting ranges a few years ago. They are connected to a raspberry pi aka surveillance monitor. They were bought for the same reason as you mention... they are cheap as hell and no night view is needed....
I thought... what can go wrong... the plan was to run them on full auto... i tested a few things before install (which were not needed , but why not test if you have the hand on such a good system)

Here is a short summary:

1) on buying time, there was NO junction box for any model available .... to mount them i had to install a small box near to them ... i know that many do this even today (because many vendors/models dont have a junction box, they dont know that they exist or they want to save money) ... but it looks really awful ! Also you will save alot of time with a junction box.

2) you can not choose focal length... you have to go full reolink favour aka "4mm" (which looks more like 3mm)

3) on the model i had installed there was no H265 codec available. so you have to go for the old h264. this will may end in some problems...

• you can only install one harddrive with a maximum of 4TB in most of their 8 port NVR !
• if you record 8 cameras 24/7 on the nvr (2TB) you get only 3-4 days playback time (5MP models, on 8MP models you will may have only 1 DAY )
• its all on the reolink page if you can find it before you buy it and think about it ... How Long Can Reolink NVR Record for
• they preinstall the cheapest consumer grade harddrives in their nvrs.

4) recording... many hik/dahua nvrs can record md/smd (...) and 24/7 at the same time ... on the used model it was only possible to choose... not both. i know that they fixed this on some models with a firmware update and newer can record both
- the motion detection / AI features are a complete lie. they dont work and will record anything. even if you exclude some areas they will record because everything in their firmware is bad implemented. this is also in many amazon reviews... many thought they can use motion detection as an outdoor alarmsystem (reolink showed this feature in the describtion ... but i couldnt find them anymore, because it seems that they removed them all from amazon)

5) you can not connect a mouse to their NVRs ... only the "certified" reolink mouse works ! if you google for it, there are some hints which logitech model might work... i bought them all ! not working ... you can not even buy it , its always "not in stock" on their website... so if your included mouse fails, you can trash the whole system if you dont have warranty ............................ if you can buy it its around 20 USD + shipping ... for a crappy china mouse ! wow ! its not only a problem with wireless mouses, its also with many wired mouses i tried ! they work for 1-2s and then they stop working. you can not use any active usb extension, ... if you do even the included mouse does not work !
See: Reolink Mouse Statement

6) all reolink cams have an exposure bug ... any person who is near the camera is completely overexposed by IR light ! they will not fix it... never !

View attachment 94558

7) nightview ... its really bad... you may can get some improvement with settings, but they are limited! see screenshot... its only around 3 meter away ! with best conditions (IR FULL ON) ...

View attachment 94561

(SOURCE: REVIEW 8MP REOLINK

6) warranty... they claim that they have warranty... haha ! one cam was out of focus , so i ask reolink to send a replacement. they told me the china man classic... please send a video ... i did ... then they told me i have to send it back to china for replacement. from europe to china its around 50 USD shipping back to china ... lol ... i ask amazon for replacement ... they only could change the whole system ... what i did ... and it was listed on warehouse deals a few days after they received it .. wow !

7) compatibility ... reolink systems only works "good" with reolink everything beyond that is not supported, may not work and never will..


8) APP !! ( have forget about it, so i have to edit lol):

The app is complete shit and the p2p reolink cloud is even shittier ! Even with a good internet connection (100mbit upload) the APP will force you to use "fluent" aka substream quality. You can not use hd stream over mobile connection. everytime you change to HD stream it will tell you that there is a problem with your internet connection and switch to fluent automatic. NO review ever mention that, because they ALWAYS use wifi to show the app.

also you can only see recordings in 1 hour blocks .. you have to click on them, wind around ... its really stressfull to find something on these good reolink systems via mobile.

even with the cheapest rebranded hikvision system from annke you can use HD h265 stream over mobile internet with hikconnect.

DAHUA / HIKVISION have p2p ability. if you want, you can enable it or better use VPN



there is many more but i dont want to waste to much time on reolink topic

MY CONCLUSION:

AVOID reolink even if you dont care about nightview and want the cheapest... buy hikvision/dahua oem like annke or amcrest... it will be alot better than reolink. you can use your own mouse (lol) and will get much better setting options , better compatibility , ...... everything is better than any reolink !

Just think about it... if you buy good stuff like 1/1.8" you will pay today 60-80 USD more per cam. but .......... how often do you install a camera system? it will have the same quality in 5 years .. if you have dahua/hik nvr you can use any hik/dahua camera , you can upgrade to blueiris if you feel a rise in demand ... if you are planning to use blueiris in first place instead of nvr you will have a bad time with reolink !

reolink ... its a dead end !

Thank you - an interesting point of view. Just a quick remarks from me on your points:


1) junction box - I did not plan to install one, just a direct mount.

2) you can not choose focal length... RLC-822A I mentioned is 2.8-12mm optical, so not an issue.

3) on the model i had installed there was no H265 codec available. RLC-822A has it, but you can not select the codec (hardcoded). Anyway, not an issue for me as I am using BI and NAS.

4) recording... many hik/dahua nvrs can record md/smd (...) and 24/7 at the same time ... Working well on RLC-822A, not sure about others.
- the motion detection / AI features are a complete lie. - did not test it a lot, but by now it identified the person correctly. As I am using BI+DeepStack - it is not an issue anyway.

5) you can not connect a mouse to their NVRs ... can not comment here, do not have their NVR

6) all reolink cams have an exposure bug ... - RLC-822A seems to be ok after tweaking the settings. At least very similar to AMCREST 4K.

7) nightview ... its really bad... - not the best indeed, but very similar to AMCREST 4K camera. You do need to change shutter speed and gain.

8) warranty... - very possible, have no experience.

7) compatibility ... reolink systems only works "good" with reolink - I did not test it for months, but I connected them to BI and they are working fine.

8) APP !! The app is complete shit and the p2p reolink cloud is even shittier ! - Well, APP is working very well for me, including HiResolution view over cellular (T-Mobile and Verizon). I do have 1GB fiber. The best thing about the application is remote access, you do not need VPN/Port Forward.


Anyway, I am looking for a good night vision camera now, as Reolink and Amcrest 4K probably will not make the cut.

 

[user8963]

@Shap

i dont see the reason/intention behind your posts. look.. you are a new member, go to a thread about a youtuber who gives the same unqualified statements like you instead of going to one of the reolink threads... one could think that you are related to the guy in the video or even are the guy.

you compare crap to crap, i dont see the point. all what i read is "i like reolink, good quality, for me all is fine" ... you have no good camera for comparison, why do you even think you can have a opinion on the topic itself ?

and.. why are you even using the app of reolink when u have blueiris. you put an sd card in the reolink cam and record on it, grap the rtsp stream and record on blueiris too ?

there is so many wrong with everything you say,.. here are many warnings to not use any p2p features for several reasons.. and you say that its saver than port forwarding ? what ?!

you can tell your friend that he should give better instructions what to post before you post.

 

[Shap]

@Shap

i dont see the reason/intention behind your posts. look.. you are a new member, go to a thread about a youtuber who gives the same unqualified statements like you instead of going to one of the reolink threads... one could think that you are related to the guy in the video or even are the guy.

you compare crap to crap, i dont see the point. all what i read is "i like reolink, good quality, for me all is fine" ... you have no good camera for comparison, why do you even think you can have a opinion on the topic itself ?

and.. why are you even using the app of reolink when u have blueiris. you put an sd card in the reolink cam and record on it, grap the rtsp stream and record on blueiris too ?

there is so many wrong with everything you say,.. here are many warnings to not use any p2p features for several reasons.. and you say that its saver than port forwarding ? what ?!

you can tell your friend that he should give better instructions what to post before you post.

I have no relation to the guy, and I think I clearly said that using a better camera for night vision is a must. What I did wanted to say that some statements on this thread are just not correct.
Reolink may be crap, but price/performance may serve some people "ok" (as any other cheap crap).

As for the port forwarding - yes, it is not good as you open your network for many potential attacks, including DDOS, from anywhere.
Using a relay service (like Reolink and some others are using) is more secure from this perspective, but the unknown is how these companies manage this connection.

I guess the only solution I would feel good about is BI behind the proxy in DMZ with strong authentication.

 

[wittaj]

@Shap - are you sure they are working fine with BI? Please post your Cameras Status page from BI that shows your KEY, similar to this screenshot of a member here where they had set these cameras to 15FPS within the cameras (I suspect you will be missing motion that you do not know you are missing....):

Now look at they key - that is the iframes ratio. Blue Iris works best when the FPS and the iframes match. Now this is a ratio, so it should be a 1.00 if it matches the FPS. The iframes not matching (that you cannot fix or change with a reolink) is why they miss motion in Blue Iris and why people have problems. This is mainly why people are having issues with these cameras and there are many threads showing the issues people have with this manufacturer and Blue Iris. It is these same games that make the camera look great as a still image or video but turn to crap once motion is introduced.

The Blue Iris developer has indicated that for best reliability, sub stream frame rate should be equal to the main stream frame rate and these cameras cannot do that and there is nothing you can do about that with these cameras... The iframe rates (something these cameras do not allow you to set) should equal the FPS, but at worse case be no more than double. This example shows the cameras going down to a keyrate of 0.25 means that the iframe rates are over 4 times the FPS and that is why motion detection is a disaster with these cameras and Blue Iris...A value of 0.5 or less is considered insufficient to trust for motion triggers reliably...try to do DeepStack with those lower ratios and it will be useless in many situations...

Compounding the matter even worse...motion detection is based on the substream and look at the substream FPS - they dropped down to below 6 FPS with an iframe/key rate of 0.25 - you will miss motion most of the time with that issue...DeepStack probably won't work at all for certain fields of view...

Look back of videos people have posted here where Reolink/BI combo completely missed a motion event. If all you have are reo's, then I highly suspect there are events that you are missing.

 

[CCTVCam]

I have no relation to the guy, and I think I clearly said that using a better camera for night vision is a must. What I did wanted to say that some statements on this thread are just not correct.
Reolink may be crap, but price/performance may serve some people "ok" (as any other cheap crap).

As for the port forwarding - yes, it is not good as you open your network for many potential attacks, including DDOS, from anywhere.
Using a relay service (like Reolink and some others are using) is more secure from this perspective, but the unknown is how these companies manage this connection.

I guess the only solution I would feel good about is BI behind the proxy in DMZ with strong authentication.

Open network? It's anything but open that's the point.

Once you port forward you advertise to the whole world "Here is my Reolink camera at IP address: xxx.xxx.xx.xxx located in Austin texas, USA (maybe even more precisely than that), come connect to me".

That is the problem. Every hacker in the world and every hacking bot can see you camera, it's IP, it's location and more fundamentally, most cameras have vulnerabilites which are well known so once they know what camera model it is, they can gain access to the camera and control over it. This can result in anything from them simply watching the stream, blackmailing you with it, getting off on it if it includes children, altering your cameras firmware to either brick it and ruin it, or turn it into a bot tobe used to attack corporate websites (leadingthe FBI back to you as a suspect), or worst of all, they can use it often to get access to your whole network and thus your home PC and everything else plugged into your router.

Securing it is free, via a VPN (software one not paid for - the latter just hide your browsing from your ISP an have nothing to do with securing your cameras). Read the pages on here in the Wiki in how to set up a VPN. If you want to take the easy way out and port forward, fine. But eventually it will end up in tears. It's not if but when...

 

[Shap]

Open network? It's anything but open that's the point.

Once you port forward you advertise to the whole world "Here is my Reolink camera at IP address: xxx.xxx.xx.xxx located in Austin texas, USA (maybe even more precisely than that), come connect to me".

That is the problem. Every hacker in the world and every hacking bot can see you camera, it's IP, it's location and more fundamentally, most cameras have vulnerabilites which are well known so once they know what camera model it is, they can gain access to the camera and control over it. This can result in anything from them simply watching the stream, blackmailing you with it, getting off on it if it includes children, altering your cameras firmware to either brick it and ruin it, or turn it into a bot tobe used to attack corporate websites (leadingthe FBI back to you as a suspect), or worst of all, they can use it often to get access to your whole network and thus your home PC and everything else plugged into your router.

Securing it is free, via a VPN (software one not paid for - the latter just hide your browsing from your ISP an have nothing to do with securing your cameras). Read the pages on here in the Wiki in how to set up a VPN. If you want to take the easy way out and port forward, fine. But eventually it will end up in tears. It's not if but when...

Is that exactly what I said in my reply? Port forwarding will open your network for the things you mentioned, and anyone can try to find a camera vulnerability and hack it. It is bad practice IMHO.

 

[sebastiantombs]

To me, Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Wink, Blink, and all the rest prey on the total ignorance of their customers when it comes to what it takes to get the performance they advertise and their customers ignorance of, what we consider, to be basic network security. They sell their junk to the unsuspecting, who with no idea what to expect, think it actually works as advertised. There's an old saying "ignorance is bliss".

 

[looney2ns]

As always:
caveat emptor
Purchase real cams, not "toys".
Buy once cry once.

 

[CCTVCam]

Is that exactly what I said in my reply? Port forwarding will open your network for the things you mentioned, and anyone can try to find a camera vulnerability and hack it. It is bad practice IMHO.

Misread sorry.

 

[mat200]

FYI -

Remember Amcrest sells various different 8MP ( "4K" ) cameras, some have smaller sensors, some are older models, and some are nicer new models with the larger 8MP 1/1.8" sensor.

My assumption is this comparison of the Reolink image at night is compared to a Amcrest model with a smaller sensor.
( would be nice to see a side by side post of a low light conditions with a moving subject - this is where even an Amcrest with the same size sensor should do at least slightly better as you can adjust the tuning parameters a bit .. )


"7) nightview ... its really bad... - not the best indeed, but very similar to AMCREST 4K camera. You do need to change shutter speed and gain. "

 

[Shap]

FYI -

Remember Amcrest sells various different 8MP ( "4K" ) cameras, some have smaller sensors, some are older models, and some are nicer new models with the larger 8MP 1/1.8" sensor.

My assumption is this comparison of the Reolink image at night is compared to a Amcrest model with a smaller sensor.
( would be nice to see a side by side post of a low light conditions with a moving subject - this is where even an Amcrest with the same size sensor should do at least slightly better as you can adjust the tuning parameters a bit .. )


"7) nightview ... its really bad... - not the best indeed, but very similar to AMCREST 4K camera. You do need to change shutter speed and gain. "

I am talking about the one that is sold in this store. 4K, new version. However the sensor is small, so I personally do not see a big difference between this 4K camera and Reolink (despite what others may say on this thread).
You can tweak shutter speed, and both Reolink and Amcrest will produce very similar images at night for moving subjects. Amcrest shutter speed was also tweaked.

The difference between Reolink (50$) and Amcrest (85$) is mainly in firmware options. As for image quality - it is almost the same.

I deployed 5442T camera, and it definitely has a better night image than Amcrest 4K / Reolink 4K due to the large sensor. But the cost is 150$, that is 3 times the Reolink.

 

[user8963]

He is now everywhere in the youtube world ....... creepy

 

[mat200]

I am talking about the one that is sold in this store. 4K, new version. However the sensor is small, so I personally do not see a big difference between this 4K camera and Reolink (despite what others may say on this thread).
You can tweak shutter speed, and both Reolink and Amcrest will produce very similar images at night for moving subjects. Amcrest shutter speed was also tweaked.

The difference between Reolink (50$) and Amcrest (85$) is mainly in firmware options. As for image quality - it is almost the same.

I deployed 5442T camera, and it definitely has a better night image than Amcrest 4K / Reolink 4K due to the large sensor. But the cost is 150$, that is 3 times the Reolink.

Hi @Shap

Please do share more information, comparison videoes ( moving subject ) and the models you are comparing it to. As well as any tuning parameters you maybe using, if not using the defaults.

One of the Amcrest models sold in the Amcrest store ( we used to find deals for it down to $60-65 ) is an older model with a 1/2.5" sensor.

If you post the model, I can look up the specs to post.

Also, we have numerous reports by members of the Reolink models NOT holding the settings in low light video capture cases.

 

[Shap]

Hi @Shap

Please do share more information, comparison videoes ( moving subject ) and the models you are comparing it to. As well as any tuning parameters you maybe using, if not using the defaults.

One of the Amcrest models sold in the Amcrest store ( we used to find deals for it down to $60-65 ) is an older model with a 1/2.5" sensor.

If you post the model, I can look up the specs to post.

Also, we have numerous reports by members of the Reolink models NOT holding the settings in low light video capture cases.

The model is: FCM-IP8M-T2499EW28MM , CMOS 1/2.7” 8MP progressive CMOS image sensor
So pretty much the same as Reolink. I will try to connect reolink again and make the video - I just installed 5442T and this Amcrest.

The only issue with Reolink that I saw - you have fewer parameters to configure. But overall - it working fine for 4K camera, if you are ok with 1/2.7" sensors.
I did not see 4K cameras with 1/1.8" or bigger sensors yet (<200 USD).

 

[user8963]

The model is: FCM-IP8M-T2499EW28MM , CMOS 1/2.7” 8MP progressive CMOS image sensor
So pretty much the same as Reolink. I will try to connect reolink again and make the video - I just installed 5442T and this Amcrest.

The only issue with Reolink that I saw - you have fewer parameters to configure. But overall - it working fine for 4K camera, if you are ok with 1/2.7" sensors.
I did not see 4K cameras with 1/1.8" or bigger sensors yet (<200 USD).

1/1.2"

DS-2CD2087G2-L(U)

Hikvision DS-2CD2087G2-L(U) 4 K ColorVu Fixed Bullet Network Camera

www.hikvision.com

DS-2CD2T87G2-L

Hikvision DS-2CD2T87G2-L 4 K ColorVu Fixed Bullet Network Camera

www.hikvision.com

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

ipcamtalk.com

1/1,8"

DS-2CD2386G2-I(U)

Hikvision DS-2CD2386G2-I(U) 4K AcuSense Fixed Turret Network Camera

www.hikvision.com

DS-2CD2T86G2-2I/4I

Hikvision DS-2CD2T86G2-2I/4I 4K AcuSense Fixed Bullet Network Camera

www.hikvision.com

According to andy, dahua 1/1,8" 8MP turret will be released in august 2021. 1/1.8" 8MP models are/will be under/near to <200USD





please just skip any daylight video, only nightview. no one cares about daylight.

there are some new videos on youtube of the reolink 12mp camera... the overexposure bug seems finally better. but also only 1/2,49" 12MP ... getting more crazy ... day sharpness looks good on youtube...
but rest looks not so good... there is one video where ghosting starts near the camera with full IR on ...

 

[Flintstone61]

My wife wished I had a bigger Sensor.

 

[Flintstone61]

Yur Mamma liked my big Sensor.

Ok good night….

 

[mat200]

I think iframe is not the only issue

Thanks @user8963 posted a good example of the low light image capture challenged Reolink produces in another thread.

View attachment 96586



.. and where did he go? ( hint on the grass in the first picture )




and with a pause you finally see the disappearing magic critter ..

 

[user8963]

Have two examples from animals in comparison to the reolink clip from 5442 as 2,8mm ...
no ir light, no direct light... all light is indirect from street ..
it is only possible in BW, in full color all sharpness is gone...

1meter underwater it tends to blurr.. but over water there is no blurr in reality you cannot see them 1m with your eyes... only possible with ir cut filter in bw mode

i had to cut one video, because i was not able to export a short clip ... no idea why,... also had to convert the mp4 to mp4 .. no idea why .. after cutting/exporting there was somehow a quality loss

View attachment convert.mp4
View attachment cut.mp4