Could you give some advice, please?( Should I switch to a different CPU?)

[Molotok05]

Hello, everyone!
Could anybody of you provide me with any advice for my request?
We have 70 Amcrest video cameras on the network.
Half of them are IP4M-1026E (2K), and the other half are IP8M (4K).
All cameras are connected to 4 servers and managed via Blue Iris v5.
Cameras are divided among each server in the following way:
Part of them (35 cameras) were connecting to one server, and other parts of the cameras ( remaining 35 cameras) were connecting to another server.
The remaining two servers are intended to duplicate (backup) information.
Each server is a Dell Optiplex desktop and consists of:
1. CPU I7-4790
2.RAM 24G DDR3
3.RocketRAID 2720 SAS (RAID5)
4. HDD WD Purple 8T WD80PUZX (3x8T).
My question is:
should I switch to another Optiplex (let's say Dell OptiPlex 7070 I9-9900 and 32G RAM) with a more powerful CPU and more RAM onboard to give the BI app a chance to smoothly support resolution up to 4K everywhere on the servers?
So let me clarify it.
What should be the best server's hardware configuration to support 35 cameras in 4K resolution via the BI app?
I would appreciate any suggestion!

 

[mat200]

Hello, everyone!
Could anybody of you provide me with any advice for my request?
We have 70 Amcrest video cameras on the network.
Half of them are IP4M-1026E (2K), and the other half are IP8M (4K).
All cameras are connected to 4 servers and managed via Blue Iris v5.
Cameras are divided among each server in the following way:
Part of them (35 cameras) were connecting to one server, and other parts of the cameras ( remaining 35 cameras) were connecting to another server.
The remaining two servers are intended to duplicate (backup) information.
Each server is a Dell Optiplex desktop and consists of:
1. CPU I7-4790
2.RAM 24G DDR3
3.RocketRAID 2720 SAS (RAID5)
4. HDD WD Purple 8T WD80PUZX (3x8T).
My question is:
should I switch to another Optiplex (let's say Dell OptiPlex 7070 I9-9900 and 32G RAM) with a more powerful CPU and more RAM onboard to give the BI app a chance to smoothly support resolution up to 4K everywhere on the servers?
So let me clarify it.
What should be the best server's hardware configuration to support 35 cameras in 4K resolution via the BI app?
I would appreciate any suggestion!

Remember to check codec H.264 vs H.265 .. normally H.264 requires less CPU power ..

 

[Molotok05]

TO
mat200
Thank you for your quick response!
I know about it.
I studied the requirements for the Blue Iris app.
I wonder whether installing an Nvidia 3060 card will help me with 4K decoding on the servers?

 

[sebastiantombs]

Are you using sub streams? Sub streams can reduce CPU utilization, loading, far more than using hardware acceleration and doesn't cost anything to do other than the time to configure the video streams in the cameras and configure the cameras in Blue Iris to use the second, lower resolution stream. You can still record continuously in full resolution if you'd like to but if you record the sub stream and let Blue iris switch to main stream on motion you'll save a lot of disk space along with reducing the CPU load dramatically.

 

[Molotok05]

To
sebastiantombs
Thank you for your answer.
I didn't use the substreams because I had thought it didn't matter.
I disabled them on all video cameras.
Let me clarify it.
My executives want to get records with 4K resolution.
It's a main cause of my request.

 

[sebastiantombs]

As I said, you can still record continuously in full resolution and use sub streams for processing in Blue Iris. Blue Iris will use the sub streams for motion detection which is the most CPU intensive process, especially on high resolution video. Have a look in the Blue Iris help file for how to go about configuring it. When you play back clips/recordings, they will be in full resolution. In your particular case I'd explain all this to the executives and stress the savings in hardware by using sub streams. Actually I don't think they'll see much of a difference when viewing multiple camera views because those are already at reduced resolution to fit everything onto a single screen.

Incidentally, NVRs have used the sub stream trick for years but sub streams are a relatively new feature for Blue Iris.

 

[SouthernYankee]

screen shots needed.
1) windows task manager process tab sorted by memory (most at the top), Must contain, memory, disk, network, GPU, GPU engine columns
2)Blue iris status (lighting bolt graph,upper left corner) clip storage tab
3)blue Iris status cameras tab
4)Blue iris settings clips and archiving tab , for the NEW folder, stored folder, alerts folder. (three screen shots)

What is the Make and Model of your raid controller ?

 

[Molotok05]

to sebastiantombs
Thank you for your suggestion!
Maybe it makes sense.
to SouthernYankee
I'm using RocketRAID 2720 SAS controller.
The RAID is 5.
As I already mentioned, the purpose is to build the hardware system in a way that it could process a 4k stream from 35 video cameras.
Currently, I have connected 35 cameras working in mixed mode ( part of the cameras are working in HD resolution, another part is working in 2K resolution).
It works in that configuration almost smoothly.
So my question was, do I need to replace my CPU I7-4790 with something more powerful to support the 4k stream according to the BI recommendation in the section "But what CPU do I actually buy?"?

 

[VirtualCam]

Molotok,
You're not really telling us what the problem is.

What problem are you trying to solve?

What do you think is wrong with the current setup that you think you need to replace it? What is it not doing that you want it to do?

 

[Molotok05]

VirtualCam,
I'm so sorry if I was unclear.
To be clear, I'm trying to get help with "do I need to replace my CPU I7-4790 with something more powerful to support the 4k stream" or not?
Which CPU (platform) should I choose?
Maybe somebody of you had that experience and can share it with me?

 

[VirtualCam]

VirtualCam,
I'm so sorry if I was unclear.
To be clear, I'm trying to get help with "do I need to replace my CPU I7-4790 with something more powerful to support the 4k stream" or not?
Which CPU (platform) should I choose?
Maybe somebody of you had that experience and can share it with me?

You still haven't answered the question....

Why are you asking if you need to replace your CPU?

What is it not doing that you want it to do?

There's usually a reason someone wants to upgrade. What is the reason?

 

[Molotok05]

VirtualCam,
I thought that I gave you a reason why I'm here.
The current hardware configuration doesn't support a 4K stream from 35 video cameras.
Both CPU(I7-4790) and RAM (24G DDR3) get overloading.
It works well in a mixed environment (HD stream + 2K stream).
It's the reason why I'm thinking upgrade the server.
What should be the best server's hardware configuration to support 35 cameras in 4K resolution via the BI app?

 

[wittaj]

If you use the substreams as suggested, then that machine is fine.

A member here runs 50 cameras on a lesser machine than yours at sub 30%.

Using substreams will still allow you to record 24/7 the 4k mainstream, it just uses substreams for the CPU intensive activities.

I doubt you can find a computer that will run 70 4k cameras using just mainstream for everything.

Substreams are your friend. If you are using them for the main workhorse of BI (motion detection, alerts, etc.), then you can record the mainstream 24/7 without much additional CPU overhead, but you need to still use substreams or the CPU will spike. At that point you are not "degrading their capabilities" as you are still recording the mainstream, just not using it for motion detection, which is where the CPU is used intensively.

Believe me, none of us would be using substreams if it degraded the opportunity to capture what we want....

While this thread was directed towards LPR, the same principals apply regarding resolution. You would be surprised how good a D1 substream can be to save on overall storage and CPU requirements as this is more than adequate for BI or Deepstack to analyze:

How much resolution is really needed for LPR

We have folks come here all the time thinking that more MP is better, whether it be for general purposes or for LPR. Those of us that have been around long enough know that sensor size is more important than MP. Those that have been here awhile know that I share a representative sample of...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Molotok05]

wittaj,
Thank you!
It sounds good and it looks like I should pay attention to Substreams.

 

[SouthernYankee]

You do not need to change the CPU to support 4K. You will need 4K monitors to view the output.
As directed use substreams . Record all cameras continuously.
You may have problems with the RAID5 not being able to records all the streams. I use to use RAID 5 until I tried to do a failed disk recovery, the recovery will not happen while still recording. If you must use a raid, individual mirrored drives. Assigned a balanced camera load to each mirrored set.

My setup is I record locally and use a clone camera to record to a separate network drive, located in a fireproof gun safe.
Yes I am paranoid.

 

[mat200]

to sebastiantombs
Thank you for your suggestion!
Maybe it makes sense.
to SouthernYankee
I'm using RocketRAID 2720 SAS controller.
The RAID is 5.
As I already mentioned, the purpose is to build the hardware system in a way that it could process a 4k stream from 35 video cameras.
Currently, I have connected 35 cameras working in mixed mode ( part of the cameras are working in HD resolution, another part is working in 2K resolution).
It works in that configuration almost smoothly.
So my question was, do I need to replace my CPU I7-4790 with something more powerful to support the 4k stream according to the BI recommendation in the section "But what CPU do I actually buy?"?

Hi @Molotok05

Video streaming 35 "4K" cameras to RAID5 does sound like a potential issue .. you will want to check if you are bottle necking on that ..

Bottom line: for some companies it is cheap to throw money into the hardware and spend less on the manpower, if that is the case with your company..

Easy to spend money:
get the newest faster i7 CPU, OS and applications on SSD, run mirrored HDDs for storage in the box. ( RAID 5 often is not good for video streaming systems .. )

You can still need to tune the system at this point .. so you still want to look at substreams for calculations of "motion detection" and the like ..

 

[Molotok05]

SouthernYankee
Thank you for your answer.
I appreciate it!
To be honest, my executives are a bit paranoid, so we have backup servers for all our records 8=).
I'm going to discuss moving to RAID10 with them in a couple of days.

Hi mat200,
I agree with you about RAID5 (writes are a little slower than RAID10 because parity information needs to be calculated. But since parity is distributed, 1 disk doesn't become a bottleneck) .
I deployed it because of the company budget.
But why do you think it may be a potential issue with it?
I have had an issue with one drive into the RAID, and the replacement procedure went smoothly.
Anyway, I will start to tune the system with a look at substreams.
Thank you!

 

[Molotok05]

Hello, everyone!
I need to confirm that the substreams are working!
Thank you, guys!
I really appreciate your help!

 

[charcoalcreampotatochips]

I may be a bit late, but I saw this thread was active lately and perhaps @bradner might be able to offer some insight in addition to what's already been posted in both of these threads by others.

 

[Flintstone61]

I like helping people spend other peoples money.
The i9's would be good. More cores and more threads is always good.
The 4790's wont support W-11. So if you looking at recorders out in the future.
The SFF's dont really have the power supply to run Geforce GTX cards.
Although the Nvidia Quadro ( Quadro is now a different name) come in low profile with less power hungry GPU's.

You could start preparing in the background, for the day you swap the machines over.
If you go with the MT Case you could conceivably run a full height card.
Have a look at the Dell Precision 3630's with full support for hungry Nvidia GPu's requiring a separate power plug.
check page 15 of the link below. It shows supported video cards.

https://dl.dell.com/content/manual56436443-precision-3630-tower-setup-and-specifications-guide.pdf?language=en-us&ps=true