Are Axis camera's worth it?

[jesseallen]

Hi, my father recently had a new security setup installed in our home. Our previous setup was from Honeywell and he was quite content on using an improved version from this brand, but the company we hired for the job suggested (and almost forced) us to go for Axis. Of course, the quality is clearly better from Honeywell, but I'm just curious. Are these cameras really worth the price? The total setup cost this time was almost 3 times and while the quality is good, I am not quite sure if it justifies the price. Please share your insights/experience. Thank You.

 

[Del Boy]

Are you in the UK, cos this happens a lot here I find. Installers suggest 720p Axis but that you should upgrade to 1080p. The quality is ok but to be honest I've seen AHD setups much better quality and that would cost £300 for a full setup.

Compared to Dahua/Hikvision 3/4MP, I feel Axis are too far behind the curve. I've only seen a few setups though.

 

[wxman]

Based on my (though fairly limited) experience, I've not seen anything to convince me that it's worth it. They seem to be solid cameras, but they're way too expensive compared to other brands that are just as solid. I've seen online samples of $2000 Axis cameras and honestly couldn't say that the picture quality was any better than (and arguably not even as good as) my $100 range Hikvision.

There may be some minor advancements in specific features (maybe a bit better dynamic range performance or something, for example), but for 99% of applications, I'd say Hikvision or Dahua will serve you just as well for only a fraction of the cost.

 

[danjohansson]

I am having the same question, as being from Sweden I know Axis fairly well, but the cameras are indeed more expensive. Does anyone have any links to GOOD reviews/comparisons?

 

[jesseallen]

Thank you for your response! I asked my father, and learnt that the Axis cameras were installed as a promotional offer(discount) from a local company who were retail partners with Axis.

Are you in the UK, cos this happens a lot here I find. Installers suggest 720p Axis but that you should upgrade to 1080p. The quality is ok but to be honest I've seen AHD setups much better quality and that would cost £300 for a full setup.

Compared to Dahua/Hikvision 3/4MP, I feel Axis are too far behind the curve. I've only seen a few setups though.

I live in New York, and our setup is 1080p. And I do believe that IP cameras are better than analog for the added capabilities.

Based on my (though fairly limited) experience, I've not seen anything to convince me that it's worth it. They seem to be solid cameras, but they're way too expensive compared to other brands that are just as solid. I've seen online samples of $2000 Axis cameras and honestly couldn't say that the picture quality was any better than (and arguably not even as good as) my $100 range Hikvision.

There may be some minor advancements in specific features (maybe a bit better dynamic range performance or something, for example), but for 99% of applications, I'd say Hikvision or Dahua will serve you just as well for only a fraction of the cost.

Actually the Axis setup is an improvement over our previous one and one of my dad's friend who owns HikVision setup was quite impressed by Axis's performance. Yet I think the price gap is quite huge even if the performance is significantly better.

I am having the same question, as being from Sweden I know Axis fairly well, but the cameras are indeed more expensive. Does anyone have any links to GOOD reviews/comparisons?

Having witnessed its performance over the last three weeks, Axis is worth buying if money is not a concern. But if you're on a tight budget, Hikvision or Honeywell will be your best bet.

 

[Brad_C]

If you are farting around at home then cheap Chinese cameras are fine. Where Axis shines is in long term reliability, not fabricating their spec sheets and their after-sales support. It was only a couple of years ago we were seeing 10% failure rates on Hik cameras, and they are supposed to be top of the Chinese pile.

We saw a manufacturing defect with a batch of Axis cameras. Once identified, Axis not only shipped replacement cameras direct to the clients sites (and there were a couple of hundred of those across Australia), but they then paid for a tech to go to each site and replace and re-configure the cameras. That's standing by your product and a level of support you have to pay for. Cheap Chinese cameras don't come close to the long term reliability and quality of established brands like that yet. I'm sure they'll get there, but my experience with Hik official tech support has been bad enough that I would not let them near any of my clients. With Chinese cameras you absorb the cost difference (or more) on your first service call, so you pay more up front for a reliable product and a manufacturer that stands behind it.

An example is the recent security vulnerability with Axis gear. You know that when you upgrade the firmware to fix that vulnerability you won't break the camera because they actually test and QA their firmware properly. The release notes are comprehensive and accurate, and they don't spend more time screwing their clients and region locking than fixing the firmware. You pay for that quality.

Of course, as I said for those farting around at home, sure use cheap Chinese cameras. I certainly won't be specifying them any time soon for real work though.

My comments stand as well for Axis as most of the established brands (Axis, Bosch, March Networks, Indigo Vision, Panasonic, Pelco, Samsung.. and so on). There's a reason they are more expensive. Quality and performance.

 

[klasipca]

There's a reason they are more expensive. Quality and performance.

This is not the reason why they are expensive. They are also made with cheap labor and parts. They are expensive because

We saw a manufacturing defect with a batch of Axis cameras. Once identified, Axis not only shipped replacement cameras direct to the clients sites (and there were a couple of hundred of those across Australia), but they then paid for a tech to go to each site and replace and re-configure the cameras. That's standing by your product and a level of support you have to pay for.

 

[Brad_C]

This is not the reason why they are expensive. They are also made with cheap labor and parts

You can believe whatever you like, but real quality costs money. QA/QC on design, hardware, firmware, documentation. Anyone can chuck a plastic enclosure around the SOC vendors reference design. Heck Alibaba is full of them.

Customer service and after-sales support are equally as important, and you pay for that also, but there is a real difference in the cameras themselves.

Anyway, I'm not trying to convince you. You can buy all the $69 specials you like, but there is a significant difference.

 

[klasipca]

I will stick with $69 specials that give me better features and image quality, then buy 5 year old technology at 5 times the cost:

http://www.axis.com/us/en/products/axis-m10-series

Yes, I owned a couple of M10 series over 5 years ago (because this all I could afford) and I am surprised they are still selling them for the same price. They were ok back then considering the cost, but today they are total junk.

And yes, you are right they did put a lot of money into developing these and support, but hardware is really $10 in parts.

 

[wxman]

If you are farting around at home then cheap Chinese cameras are fine. Where Axis shines is in long term reliability, not fabricating their spec sheets and their after-sales support. It was only a couple of years ago we were seeing 10% failure rates on Hik cameras, and they are supposed to be top of the Chinese pile.

Maybe years ago, but I highly doubt the failure rate is 10% now. I've heard of relatively few failures with Hikvision and Dahua in recent years....and with the price difference, you could replace one if it happened to fail and still have a significant savings over Axis. Plus there's no guarantee that buying an Axis means it will not fail. Any computerized technology has the risk of failure.

An example is the recent security vulnerability with Axis gear. You know that when you upgrade the firmware to fix that vulnerability you won't break the camera because they actually test and QA their firmware properly. The release notes are comprehensive and accurate, and they don't spend more time screwing their clients and region locking than fixing the firmware. You pay for that quality.

The problem isn't with the firmware. The problem is with people installing the incorrect firmware because the sellers are not properly warning the customer "you're buying a gray market camera, not a Western Region camera and western region firmware will brick this camera"...For the record, Dahua does not region code their cameras like Hikvision.

My comments stand as well for Axis as most of the established brands (Axis, Bosch, March Networks, Indigo Vision, Panasonic, Pelco, Samsung.. and so on). There's a reason they are more expensive. Quality and performance.

Again, these brands can fail too. Plus, you have to realize that not everyone can afford to pay the prices of these brands. Even if the failure rating is slightly higher and support is not as good, I would much rather take my chances with Hikvision/Dahua and replace one if it happens to fail. I have several Hikvision's that I've used for years and never any problem....At least I could afford it and could afford to replace one if it does fail one day. My result has been years of good service for a fraction of the cost. If I only had a brand like Axis available, I would have gotten NO service because I wouldn't have even been able to afford the start up cost to get a system setup.

 

[Brad_C]

The problem isn't with the firmware. The problem is with people installing the incorrect firmware because the sellers are not properly warning the customer "you're buying a gray market camera, not a Western Region camera and western region firmware will brick this camera"...For the record, Dahua does not region code their cameras like Hikvision.

Twaddle. I've encountered plenty of firmware issues with Genuine supported Hikvision products and when advised by Hikvision support to upgrade to a newer version found something else broken.

Again, these brands can fail too. Plus, you have to realize that not everyone can afford to pay the prices of these brands. Even if the failure rating is slightly higher and support is not as good, I would much rather take my chances with Hikvision/Dahua and replace one if it happens to fail. I have several Hikvision's that I've used for years and never any problem....At least I could afford it and could afford to replace one if it does fail one day. My result has been years of good service for a fraction of the cost. If I only had a brand like Axis available, I would have gotten NO service because I wouldn't have even been able to afford the start up cost to get a system setup.

Sure, everything fails. I'm trying to get you to look past your front door and into bigger systems. Take 1000 cameras, add installation, cabling, network, VMS, storage and suddenly the massive risk in cheap cameras becomes actually not worth taking. There's a balance. You are on one extreme side of it (no consequences if a camera fails, willing to take all the risk). Plenty of people on the other side of that balance.

 

[fenderman]

Twaddle. I've encountered plenty of firmware issues with Genuine supported Hikvision products and when advised by Hikvision support to upgrade to a newer version found something else broken.



Sure, everything fails. I'm trying to get you to look past your front door and into bigger systems. Take 1000 cameras, add installation, cabling, network, VMS, storage and suddenly the massive risk in cheap cameras becomes actually not worth taking. There's a balance. You are on one extreme side of it (no consequences if a camera fails, willing to take all the risk). Plenty of people on the other side of that balance.

This is a bunch of nonsense. There is NO way these cameras have a 10 percent failure rate. If you are seeing this then you have an issue with your installation. There are plenty of integrators installing hikvision in large applications with nowhere near the failure numbers you cite. What firmware problems do you speak of? Aside from NAS/share issues, you are exaggerating any problems, particularly when recording to VMS. Axis is WAY overpriced.

 

[Brad_C]

This is a bunch of nonsense. There is NO way these cameras have a 10 percent failure rate. If you are seeing this then you have an issue with your installation. There are plenty of integrators installing hikvision in large applications with nowhere near the failure numbers you cite. What firmware problems do you speak of? Aside from NAS/share issues, you are exaggerating any problems, particularly when recording to VMS. Axis is WAY overpriced.

I did say it was 10% a few years ago. Now days we are seeing 2-3%. Still 2 orders of magnitude more than more established brands. There have been some very peculiar ONVIF compatibility issues with 4-Line and Darkfighter cameras, issues with the eventing and some upgrade issues resulting in bricked cameras. None the less, no point continuing this thread further.

 

[wxman]

Sure, everything fails. I'm trying to get you to look past your front door and into bigger systems. Take 1000 cameras, add installation, cabling, network, VMS, storage and suddenly the massive risk in cheap cameras becomes actually not worth taking. There's a balance. You are on one extreme side of it (no consequences if a camera fails, willing to take all the risk). Plenty of people on the other side of that balance.

Not sure I'm following your math here....Look how many times higher the prices are per unit, then multiply that by 1000. Heck, even if all 1000 cameras failed, you could replace them all and still haven't spent as much money as you would for 1000 Axis cams....and by your own admission, only about 20-30 out of 1000 of those cheap cameras would need to be replaced. I would argue that even that is an overestimate, but just assuming that is correct, it's still a huge savings. Big or small order, I would take my chances.

 

[jesseallen]

I'd like to thank everyone for the responses in this discussion. I really enjoyed the detailed answers and replying to them.

Of course, as I said for those farting around at home, sure use cheap Chinese cameras. I certainly won't be specifying them any time soon for real work though.

My comments stand as well for Axis as most of the established brands (Axis, Bosch, March Networks, Indigo Vision, Panasonic, Pelco, Samsung.. and so on). There's a reason they are more expensive. Quality and performance.

Now if everyone assumes that cheap things will fail like you pointed out, where will the local/emerging businesses go? Take the example of the local company that did our installation here in New York. Would we have hired them if your opinion were to be followed? Probably not. The thing is, any electronic device can fail, be it a $69 security camera or a supercomputer.

By a general, unbiased opinion, I completely agree that the Axis network security cameras we got installed are better in quality and performance than the setup we previously had and that the customer support on offer for them will be good, but are they worth the price? Only if you can pay, I would say. It's not a compulsion to get the most expensive product just because it is from a good, reputed brand.

 

[LittleScoobyMaster]

I'd like to thank everyone for the responses in this discussion. I really enjoyed the detailed answers and replying to them.


Now if everyone assumes that cheap things will fail like you pointed out, where will the local/emerging businesses go? Take the example of the local company that did our installation here in New York. Would we have hired them if your opinion were to be followed? Probably not. The thing is, any electronic device can fail, be it a $69 security camera or a supercomputer.

By a general, unbiased opinion, I completely agree that the Axis network security cameras we got installed are better in quality and performance than the setup we previously had and that the customer support on offer for them will be good, but are they worth the price? Only if you can pay, I would say. It's not a compulsion to get the most expensive product just because it is from a good, reputed brand.

If you do go with Axis, make sure you patch them now.

https://ipvm.com/reports/axis-exploit

 

[Del Boy]

If you do go with Axis, make sure you patch them now.

https://ipvm.com/reports/axis-exploit

Good info! I wouldn't choose Axis over Dahua/Hikvision if they were the same price. I was being too nice before.

 

[gpower07]

I will stick with $69 specials that give me better features and image quality, then buy 5 year old technology at 5 times the cost:

http://www.axis.com/us/en/products/axis-m10-series

Yes, I owned a couple of M10 series over 5 years ago (because this all I could afford) and I am surprised they are still selling them for the same price. They were ok back then considering the cost, but today they are total junk.

And yes, you are right they did put a lot of money into developing these and support, but hardware is really $10 in parts.

I own some of them too. 5 years ago. they are good. now not good. but their tech support is 1000 time better than hik. but I woundnt buy another axis camera. cost a lot more than hik...but picture quality is not better. I install about 300 hikvision cameras last 2 years. only 2 of them no good. IR not switch on at night. and other one get blue image. that's all.

 

[jesseallen]

If you do go with Axis, make sure you patch them now.


https://ipvm.com/reports/axis-exploit

Thanks for the tip. Axis' security cameras were already installed by the time of this post and I'm pretty sure Internet Security Systems (our vendor/installer) did the patch themselves. I haven't had any problems so far.

Good info! I wouldn't choose Axis over Dahua/Hikvision if they were the same price. I was being too nice before.

I own some of them too. 5 years ago. they are good. now not good. but their tech support is 1000 time better than hik. but I woundnt buy another axis camera. cost a lot more than hik...but picture quality is not better. I install about 300 hikvision cameras last 2 years. only 2 of them no good. IR not switch on at night. and other one get blue image. that's all.

Yes, if it wasn't for the vendor, I would have gone for Honeywell again, or probably, Hikvision. I've heard a lot about these brands and wasn't too eager to make the change. The quality is obviously nice and so is the support (didn't need but everyone else has mentioned that), but I don't see them being worth the price. They are at least 5x expensive than Hikvision with more or less the same features.

 

[Ianc2]

Everything can break .
It depends when they break , and how often they break ...

as an installer that HAS to offer 24 hour call_out on everything they install , it can not only be a pain to pay somebody to be able to answer a call at 3am on a Sunday morning , but a financial burden to pay your tech extra on top of their "on-call" bonus to go look at it .
Plus , you only ever get late night calls when something bad has happened , and you're in a whole lot of pain ....

if if paying extra up-front means better reliability , we used to eat that little bit of profit upfront by specifying the best we could .
saving £50 on a camera would cost 5 times as much if it failed , plus the "lack of faith" would hit future sales maybe 50 times as much .
false economy ...

as as to whether this modern ip equipment fails , I'm still learning .
and if it fails on my house (where lab our is free) I'm looking at the option of "it costs less so I can afford to replace it with the money I saved" .

im wary though , as in my experience a failure is only realized when the evidence is needed .