Advantage to running individual cables to NVR vs POE switch and using a single cable back to the NVR

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Is there any advantage to running individual cables to NVR with POE vs using a POE Switch and the running a single cable back to the NVR.
For example: It would be easier to run all my IP cameras to a POE switch mounted in my attic. Then run one cable back to my NVR. Is there a problem with bandwidth of using a single cable. Are there any other things to consider for using a single cable vs running individual cables all the way back to the POE on the NVR?
 

alastairstevenson

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Is there any advantage to running individual cables to NVR with POE vs using a POE Switch and the running a single cable back to the NVR
The advantage is ease of cabling, making the physical topology of the cables work best for the location.

is there a problem with bandwidth of using a single cable.
Given that a single camera will generate maybe 5-10Mbps of traffic, and that a PoE switch will have a gigabit port for it's uplink, even 8 cameras will consume under 10% of that uplink capacity.

Are there any other things to consider for using a single cable vs running individual cables all the way back to the POE on the NVR?
Yes - the PoE switch uplink should go back to the LAN as opposed to an NVR PoE port.
If the only other available port on the LAN is on the router, ideally there should be another switch to which the NVR LAN port, and the PoE switch uplink port, connect as sending camera traffic through the router switch ports can be troublesome. To complete the network, the router should also connect to that switch.
 

Shockwave199

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Attics can be problematic with severe temperature swings. Use caution with gear up there unattended. You can close up an attic and rarely go up there and over time not notice a fire hazard looming. For that reason I went with a poe nvr. I'm only running eight channels so the wire is no big deal at all.
 

Teken

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Is there any advantage to running individual cables to NVR with POE vs using a POE Switch and the running a single cable back to the NVR.
For example: It would be easier to run all my IP cameras to a POE switch mounted in my attic. Then run one cable back to my NVR. Is there a problem with bandwidth of using a single cable. Are there any other things to consider for using a single cable vs running individual cables all the way back to the POE on the NVR?
Placing any electronic device in a unconditioned attic space will cause you more work and lost money.

Even hardened network hardware deployed in extreme outdoor climates follow best practices of sun / rain protection. Along with proper ventilation and space volume.

If you bought one of those Chinese specials (3rd Tier) for a POE switch don’t expect a very long service life. If for what ever reason you must install the Chinese switch up there install a thermally controller fan next to the switch to promote air flow and keep the internal temps low.

If the POE Switch uses a brick style power supply you better place it in a metal enclosure to contain the ensuing fire. If the PSU is internal to the POE Switch mount the casing to a large metal plate.

This will act like a radiator and help transfer heat while keeping the unit cool.

Lastly, insure the switch is facing down where the RJ45 ports are pointing downward. This will insure moisture doesn’t fall inside the port and cause a short and thus a raging fire in your attic.

If Google Fu is powerful it might turn up a few examples of attic fires and the root cause. Which is a unapproved piece of equipment installed in the attic causing a raging fire.
 

Dingoboy

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Is there any advantage to running individual cables to NVR with POE vs using a POE Switch and the running a single cable back to the NVR.
The most significant advantage to running individual cables to your PoE NVR instead of your switch is that with a PoE NVR, you have effectively eliminated the need to purchase the switch in the first place. I am a staunch defender of the "KISS" methodology (Keep It Simple Stupid). I don't like adding unnecessary components, junctions, etc. they all typically just equate to points of failure and money and time spent installing/troubleshooting/re-purchasing/re-installing. With your scenario of limited space though, I can understand why you would go the route you did.
 

wittaj

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While I like the KISS methodology as well, I like to consider points of failure too and would hate for the POE to go out on the NVR and have nothing. I have had that happen, so I go with multiple switches so if one set goes out, I do not lose my entire system at once. May cost a little more, but I find it worth it after experiencing a failure.
 

pete_c

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Is there a problem with bandwidth of using a single cable.

No. But a POE switch in the attic could be an issue. As mentioned above it could be a single point of failure to multiple cameras.

Are there any other things to consider for using a single cable vs running individual cables all the way back to the POE on the NVR?

No. Typically the included POE on the NVR has a sufficient PS to power all of the cameras attached.
 

Dingoboy

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While I like the KISS methodology as well, I like to consider points of failure too and would hate for the POE to go out on the NVR and have nothing. I have had that happen, so I go with multiple switches so if one set goes out, I do not lose my entire system at once. May cost a little more, but I find it worth it after experiencing a failure.
While I don't necessarily disagree with your logic, it veers off point from the original question and my response. If you choose to install a switch between your cameras and PoE NVR at the onset, in every way shape and form, you are adding a cost to no benefit to your system since that switch is constantly in use contributing to the likelihood of failure. Additionally, in the original scenario, even if the cables were run to the NVR directly and failed, the switch is just as easily installed at that point in the exact same location just as easily as the OP installed it at the onset. If you purchased the switch in anticipation of a failure at some point and stored it for that purpose, then I would agree that having that in reserve would be a good and justified purchase. Otherwise, like I stated in my answer to the OP, the PoE NVR eliminates the need for the switch.
 

wittaj

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Well, the OP asked if there was a disadvantage to doing this, and I like to think that I confirmed to OP that this is totally acceptable to do and provides redundancy that most do not think about. Personally I wouldn't put the switch in the attic, but would instead run several cables down a wall to a switch inside for that side of the house. But to each their own.

There is a benefit in my scenario if, for example, you have 8 cameras and the POE of the NVR goes down and now you lost all 8 cameras. If you instead run two 4-port switches and one goes out, you still have 4 cameras running.

And if you are smart, you have cameras with SD cards in them so in the event the NVR totally fails (have had that happen to), you are still getting video to the SD Card as the switches that are not part of the NVR still have power...

After the failures I have had, I would go with the non-POE NVR and the cost savings between the non-POE NVR and the POE NVR can purchase two POE switches and come out ahead...

I guess you haven't had systems long enough to have these types of failures or you have been extremely lucky (or me unlucky LOL). YMMV...
 

Teken

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If all things were equal and the proper amount of money was invested into said NVR / DVR. That appliance would last easily ten years.

With the advent of incorporating POE into the same NVR chassis at a low price point. It’s pretty rare to see one last ten years much less five.

The vast majority of the people on this forum and thousands like it. Purchase based on low price while trying to balance overall value & reliability.

The Chinese have done an incredible feat in providing billions of random hardware that meets almost any price point while making profit!

When you have such a mentality and low budget for something that’s so important. You simply can’t expect X vs Y to offer the same level of durability and performance at such low prices.

The market certainly has those diamonds in the rough that we all know and use. But, that same market offers more junk that literally is a ticking time bomb waiting to explode!

The conversation is never can you do a thing. It should always be, should you do a thing . . .

In North America the safety standards are well established and generally speaking are followed. Think NEC, CEC, UL, cUL, ETL, etc. The above are how things are supposed to be done and tested for safety while offering long term reliability.

When you purchase a 3rd tier product that offers absolutely no safety markings that should make you run. The infamous CE mark that appears on almost every Chinese electronics must always be suspect if displayed on a unknown brand / 3rd tier.

The Chinese are the undisputed leaders in copying anything which spans clothes to medicine for any price point. When people say the Chinese can’t build anything that last these people are simply ignorant and stupid.

The Chinese are motivated by profit like any other person. Almost every known piece of high technology is made in China. As an example regardless of what you feel about the brand. Apple doesn’t have China making their wares because their incompetent or will explode in two days.

Any company worth their salt has independent personal to QA / QC the production of the manufacturing line. They also have contracts which fully stipulates the BOM, QA, QC, meet a specific level at all times.

If they don’t they pay heavy fines and penalties. In the worst case they pull out. In the extreme case get sued.

As noted up above the Chinese are driven by profit. So these business don’t want to kill the golden goose! This scenario is played out by the likes of Apple, Google, Cisco, Intel, Samsung, name any company in the world.

It’s made to the highest quality and durability that the company is willing to pay for.

The same can not be said for every low priced 3rd tier product on AliExpress! Clearly it’s not because the Chinese can’t make it last, make it safe. It’s because there isn’t a 1st tier company sponsoring them to do so and their drive is market share and low profit.

If someone did a poll about how many members have replaced their NVR and how long it lasted. You’ll see a huge gap in longevity and the failure point(s). Keeping in mind hard drive failures are expected as they are consumables. Along with the fact your not going to see a purple drive inside a $89.00 NVR unless the customer paid for the same!

A all in one solution like a POE NVR has that undisputed allure of Plug & Play. It’s simple, cost effect, it just works!

Now, if you get 5 years out of it - Good 4 U! If you get 10 you won the lottery and should enjoy that incredible feat.

Will people see the same now in 2021?

Ideally yes but probably no . . . If something blows up in a NVR the only thing the average person can do is replace the HD. Having all your eggs in one basket is asking for trouble.

Very few of us are made of money so know the reasons for being price conscious. But, this doesn’t mean installing every blue light special known to man?!? Id love to post up some take over photos of installs I’ve seen over the years and the cheap ass gear used.

If your a business you really have no excuse not having a decent budget while using name brand hardware. As a consumer, that runs the gamut and my hopes are these same people come on this forum and others to get educated to do it right once.
 

oh6hfx

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Adding one thing: at least with Dahua NVR and cameras, if cameras are connected direct to Dahua NVR PoE-ports, they are then behind NVRs switch and cannot be accessed directly from outside network. Most of the cases this is just fine, but if you need to adjust
special settings in individual cameras, it won't be possible trough Dahua NVR. For example, some cameras exposure and picture settings can't be modified trough NVR.
 

Dingoboy

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Well, the OP asked if there was a disadvantage to doing this, and I like to think that I confirmed to OP that this is totally acceptable to do and provides redundancy that most do not think about. Personally I wouldn't put the switch in the attic, but would instead run several cables down a wall to a switch inside for that side of the house. But to each their own.

There is a benefit in my scenario if, for example, you have 8 cameras and the POE of the NVR goes down and now you lost all 8 cameras. If you instead run two 4-port switches and one goes out, you still have 4 cameras running.

And if you are smart, you have cameras with SD cards in them so in the event the NVR totally fails (have had that happen to), you are still getting video to the SD Card as the switches that are not part of the NVR still have power...

After the failures I have had, I would go with the non-POE NVR and the cost savings between the non-POE NVR and the POE NVR can purchase two POE switches and come out ahead...

I guess you haven't had systems long enough to have these types of failures or you have been extremely lucky (or me unlucky LOL). YMMV...
....depending on how many cameras you have connected to the switch and the PoE standard of your NVR. Good luck powering 8 cameras or more on your PoE+ (25.5watts) slot limitation. Especially if you use PTZ, record at night (IR), etc.
 

wittaj

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You can also overload the POE wattage of an POE NVR...add too many PTZs and the same thing can happen.

To each their own. You have your way and I have mine. Whatever works for you and your budget is all that matters.

Actually after the 4th NVR that needed replaced (longest I ever got was 2.5 years), I went to Blue Iris and I would rather run several smaller switches than one large one for the same reason. And I have my PTZs on standalone POE+ injectors just for that reason.
 

alastairstevenson

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at least with Dahua NVR and cameras, if cameras are connected direct to Dahua NVR PoE-ports, they are then behind NVRs switch and cannot be accessed directly from outside network.
Not so - all that's required is a static route to inform devices on the LAN how to reach them.
Most of the cases this is just fine, but if you need to adjust
special settings in individual cameras, it won't be possible trough Dahua NVR. For example, some cameras exposure and picture settings can't be modified trough NVR.
Both Dahua and Hikvision have built-in facilities to allow direct access to NVR-POE-connected cameras web GUI via the NVR to allow that fine-detailed configuration.
 

oh6hfx

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Not so - all that's required is a static route to inform devices on the LAN how to reach them.

Both Dahua and Hikvision have built-in facilities to allow direct access to NVR-POE-connected cameras web GUI via the NVR to allow that fine-detailed configuration.
Can you tell me more? Let's say I have NVR IP 192.168.7.224 and camera is connected to PoE port and has ip 10.1.1.65. What route command I should use in PC command line?
And how do I reach camera web ui in 10.1.1.65 if connecting from WAN to NVR either through NAT port forward or P2P?

I know Dahua has P2P and I can open the web ui via SmartPSS using "link to web" but so far I have not managed to get cameras connected to PoE ports to see internet and connect P2P.
 

Teken

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....depending on how many cameras you have connected to the switch and the PoE standard of your NVR. Good luck powering 8 cameras or more on your PoE+ (25.5watts) slot limitation. Especially if you use PTZ, record at night (IR), etc.
I’m having a really hard time understanding what you mean?!? All of this is predicated upon the facts the end user has common sense.

Even though Common Sense is the rarest element in the multiverse!

This is followed by proper wiring infrastructure that uses pure solid copper at the correct (23 AWG / Better) gauge. Next, the dedicated wiring is powering only a single end device.

Which is energized by a single port capable of said electrical load. If people are using a standard POE Switch to power a POE+ device they are obviously too stupid to live. With the advent of POE BT (POE++) we already see people trying to use CCA wire that has an internal diameter of 26 AWG!

None of this is rocket science but surely requires some basic understanding of math, electrical theory, and common sense.

Cisco / Ubiquiti / Name Whoever, don’t offer 500 - 700 POE+ watt switches just for fun. It’s offered because that’s what it takes to power 48 dedicated pieces of hardware in the network. That can’t be said to any of the blue light specials found on Amazon / AliExpress / eBay that everyone has a serious hard on to buy and use.

If a 1st tier maker indicates in their specs each port can sustain X Watts, it will. Said another way if people are saying a 8 port POE / POE+ / POE++ Switch can’t sustain its rating per port that’s because it’s a piece of shit product solely based on price and the lack of investment on their part.

None of this even addresses the fact every day in this forum and others people continue to operate multiple end devices on a dedicated line! It’s called dedicated for a reason because it’s meant for a single end device that was properly run, installed, and scoped to spec.

Yet people are literally using that dedicated line and splitting it into 2-4-6 things?!?

When speaking about PTZ’s or anything that moves never mind has a heater. In the past when the technology wasn’t so efficient every camera was powered by a dedicated DC line. Ethernet was used solely for data and nothing more. Now with higher efficiency and new POE standards Ethernet cable has made it easier to do both.

Speaking for myself (I / we) still don’t use Ethernet cable to power a large PTZ. There’s simply no way to offer a guarantee in extreme weather that once a heater / wiper is turned on that it won’t blow something up. The reverse is not true when the proper gauge & dedicated power cable is used.

Never seen a PTZ camera fail using dedicated power wiring.
 

spammenotinoz

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I have the PoE switch concealed but in the house close to the ceiling on a custom enclosure in a closet and NVR downstairs.
Sort of a compromise, as the attic / roof space gets hot here in Oz.
Single cable run for the nvr downstairs. In my case running multiple runs downstairs would get messy.
 

Dingoboy

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I’m having a really hard time understanding what you mean?!? All of this is predicated upon the facts the end user has common sense.

Even though Common Sense is the rarest element in the multiverse!

This is followed by proper wiring infrastructure that uses pure solid copper at the correct (23 AWG / Better) gauge. Next, the dedicated wiring is powering only a single end device.

Which is energized by a single port capable of said electrical load. If people are using a standard POE Switch to power a POE+ device they are obviously too stupid to live. With the advent of POE BT (POE++) we already see people trying to use CCA wire that has an internal diameter of 26 AWG!

None of this is rocket science but surely requires some basic understanding of math, electrical theory, and common sense.

Cisco / Ubiquiti / Name Whoever, don’t offer 500 - 700 POE+ watt switches just for fun. It’s offered because that’s what it takes to power 48 dedicated pieces of hardware in the network. That can’t be said to any of the blue light specials found on Amazon / AliExpress / eBay that everyone has a serious hard on to buy and use.

If a 1st tier maker indicates in their specs each port can sustain X Watts, it will. Said another way if people are saying a 8 port POE / POE+ / POE++ Switch can’t sustain its rating per port that’s because it’s a piece of shit product solely based on price and the lack of investment on their part.

None of this even addresses the fact every day in this forum and others people continue to operate multiple end devices on a dedicated line! It’s called dedicated for a reason because it’s meant for a single end device that was properly run, installed, and scoped to spec.

Yet people are literally using that dedicated line and splitting it into 2-4-6 things?!?

When speaking about PTZ’s or anything that moves never mind has a heater. In the past when the technology wasn’t so efficient every camera was powered by a dedicated DC line. Ethernet was used solely for data and nothing more. Now with higher efficiency and new POE standards Ethernet cable has made it easier to do both.

Speaking for myself (I / we) still don’t use Ethernet cable to power a large PTZ. There’s simply no way to offer a guarantee in extreme weather that once a heater / wiper is turned on that it won’t blow something up. The reverse is not true when the proper gauge & dedicated power cable is used.

Never seen a PTZ camera fail using dedicated power wiring.
Please read entire thread....My comment to which you quoted was a response regarding the scenario in which cameras (unknown qty and type) were connected to a PoE switch (unknown size/brand/capability/PoE type) which is then run via single cable to a PoE port on an NVR making the NVR the backup PoE power supply in the event of a switch PoE failure and making the switch a PoE pass-through.
 

alastairstevenson

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Can you tell me more? Let's say I have NVR IP 192.168.7.224 and camera is connected to PoE port and has ip 10.1.1.65. What route command I should use in PC command line?
Essentially it's a matter of some changes to the networking -
Use the NVR PoE interface IP address as the default gateway for the camera.
Inform the LAN router / gateway where to send traffic for the cameras by adding a static route, something like :
"For <NVR-PoE_ports_network_address> use <NVR_LAN_Interface> as the gateway."

And on a Hikvision NVR, the 'Virtual Host' should be enabled.
That's the facility that provides direct access to an NVR-PoE-port-connected camera web GUI.
 
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