Adding another POE switch

[craggie44443]

Hi everyone
First time posting here looking for a bit of help have a 3 camera setup all hard wired using poe. So it is NVR to a 8 port POE with three cameras they all work great trying to add a fourth which is around 100m from first switch when tried the cera would power on and go through cycle but no data would come from camera or still images would randomly appear so assumed I had passed the 100m limit on the cat 6 cable. I decided then to put in a second POE switch roughly 30m from original switch but when I plug the second switch into first it stops first 3 cameras from working the data transfer lights on original switch go off and the green power lights on all 8 ports go from solid green to blinking green until I remove connection from second switch and then all returns back to fully working. I have tested the connecting cable with Ethernet cable tester and all comes back as connected properly. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[wittaj]

Unless it is commercial grade, cable testers really don't tell you anything as it relates to can it push the camera data through it. We have seen here too many times where folks tester shows it should work but it doesn't.

What are the brands/models of the POE switch? Maybe you are exceeding the power budget capacity of the POE switch.

Which NVR and how is the POE switch connected to the NVR - via the LAN/WAN or the NVR POE port?

Are the cameras going thru the router? Maybe 4 cams brings it to its knees.

 

[craggie44443]

Unless it is commercial grade, cable testers really don't tell you anything as it relates to can it push the camera data through it. We have seen here too many times where folks tester shows it should work but it doesn't.

What are the brands/models of the POE switch? Maybe you are exceeding the power budget capacity of the POE switch.

Which NVR and how is the POE switch connected to the NVR - via the LAN/WAN or the NVR POE port?

Are the cameras going thru the router? Maybe 4 cams brings it to its knees.

Thanks for the reply.

Please see below for equipment models:

NVR. Hik vision DS-7604NI-K1/4P
Original switch. ip com f1109p
New switch yuanley ys2041g-p

So the feed from the original switch comes back to the house and into a Netgear TL-SG105 switch which then connects to the NVR and Modem.
The system did have a fourth camera on it previously and is the same camera that is now around 100m from original switch but was on 15m from original switch when used before and worked fine on system.

 

[wittaj]

The yaunley is a low end switch. It has 78W of capacity which unless you are using PTZs I wouldn't think you are exceeding the power.

It almost sounds like one of your switches isn't auto-negotiating correctly as to whether the port needs to provide power or not. Maybe the first switch thinks it has to provide power to the 2nd switch and then it is over power budget and the cams go offline?

 

[craggie44443]

The yaunley is a low end switch. It has 78W of capacity which unless you are using PTZs I wouldn't think you are exceeding the power.

It almost sounds like one of your switches isn't auto-negotiating correctly as to whether the port needs to provide power or not. Maybe the first switch thinks it has to provide power to the 2nd switch and then it is over power budget and the cams go offline?

They are all PTZs

 

[wittaj]

I suspect the lower end switches simply cannot keep up with the demand of the PTZs.

I went the cheap route too, including that same switch, and the PTZs were always bugging out.

 

[craggie44443]

I suspect the lower end switches simply cannot keep up with the demand of the PTZs.

I went the cheap route too, including that same switch, and the PTZs were always bugging out.

You are probably right but even without the camera plugged into the new switch it is kicking the three cameras off the original switch

 

[wittaj]

Yeah I think there is a discrepancy in the negotiating of the new switch as you said you lose those three when you plug the new switch to it.

 

[craggie44443]

How could I check/correct this? Can I manually program the port on the switch?

 

[looney2ns]

Don't cheap out on switch's, its the backbone of your camera system. Especially when using PTZ cams.
What cable did you use?
Is it Cat5e or better, and properly terminated RJ45s' to the 568B standard?
Is the cable solid copper wire, and not CCA, copper clad aluminum?
Is the cable at least 24AWG or 23AWG wire size?
No flat Ethernet cable junk used anywhere?
Stick with name brand good switches, if you want reliability.

 

[craggie44443]

Don't cheap out on switch's, its the backbone of your camera system. Especially when using PTZ cams.
What cable did you use?
Is it Cat5e or better, and properly terminated RJ45s' to the 568B standard?
Is the cable solid copper wire, and not CCA, copper clad aluminum?
Is the cable at least 24AWG or 23AWG wire size?
No flat Ethernet cable junk used anywhere?
Stick with name brand good switches, if you want reliability.

It is Cat 6 24 gauge CCA terminated to 568B RJ45s.

 

[looney2ns]

That's a problem.
Why we harp about NEVER using CCA ethernet cable. | IP Cam Talk

 

[craggie44443]

That's a problem.
Why we harp about NEVER using CCA ethernet cable. | IP Cam Talk

Aww naw. I really don't want to run new cable would a decent switch make it work?

 

[looney2ns]

Aww naw. I really don't want to run new cable would a decent switch make it work?

Nope, you can't fight physics.
For PTZ's, 23AWG should really be used.

 

[craggie44443]

Nope, you can't fight physics.
For PTZ's, 23AWG should really be used.

You know those times you ask a question and think you know the answer your going to get but hope someone gives you another well this is the answer I wasn't wanting.

 

[wittaj]

A thread just today where someone switched from CCA to pure copper and it fixed his problem

Splitter, cable or other issue?

I have a 4 port splitter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0198H6EUK) that is connected to a switch (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08J88BHGK). I have 3 of the EmpireTec IPC-Color4K-T180 cameras and 1 of the EmpireTec IPC-T5442T-ZEB cameras connected to the splitter. Initially I had 1 of the EmpireTec...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[craggie44443]

Nope, you can't fight physics.
For PTZ's, 23AWG should really be used.

A thread just today where someone switched from CCA to pure copper and it fixed his problem

Splitter, cable or other issue?

I have a 4 port splitter (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0198H6EUK) that is connected to a switch (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08J88BHGK). I have 3 of the EmpireTec IPC-Color4K-T180 cameras and 1 of the EmpireTec IPC-T5442T-ZEB cameras connected to the splitter. Initially I had 1 of the EmpireTec...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks guys. Well I have just ordered 100m of 23AWG pure copper cat 6 cable and done an accurate measurement and it is only 85m from the original switch so I shall install new cable and if it doesn't work can I hold you both responsible for it????

 

[wittaj]

Thanks guys. Well I have just ordered 100m of 23AWG pure copper cat 6 cable and done an accurate measurement and it is only 85m from the original switch so I shall install new cable and if it doesn't work can I hold you both responsible for it????

LOL - it still could be the no-name switch, but having the proper cable can go a long way. If you were not all PTZs you might get by with what you have, but they demand so much more that if the switch isn't up to the demands, problem city. Especially at night when infrared kicks in.

 

[craggie44443]

LOL - it still could be the no-name switch, but having the proper cable can go a long way. If you were not all PTZs you might get by with what you have, but they demand so much more that if the switch isn't up to the demands, problem city. Especially at night when infrared kicks in.

I am planning to do away with the second switch and run cable direct from original switch now as it should be able to handle a 85m run on the copper IMO.

 

[craggie44443]

@wittaj and @looney2ns I said I was going to hold you both responsible if the new cable did not work so I had better give you the credit for the camera working. Ripped out the CCA wire and replaced with fully copper run direct from the original switch and tada the camera works, no lag, no second switch and perfect. So thank you both for your replies to this thread and for anyone else reading this never by CCA cable it's a complete waste of time and money.