¿Security system for land without electricity?

pABL012

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Hello everyone,
this is my first contact with the forum, so I'm not sure I'm typing in the right place. Sorry if it is not.
I tell my problem:


My parents own a piece of land which is about 100km from the house in which we live (it takes over 1 hour to arrive). we have lately suffered property damage, and all indicates that some people are causing it. We have thought of installing a security camera system in the house, but we have a couple of drawbacks. The first is that we have no electricity, which leads to the second problem, which is that we do not have internet.
My first idea was to install battery-powered IP cameras. Somewhere in the house would have a host computer connected to an access point, which would receive images via WiFi. To save battery would require that the cameras could detect movement, and only send the images to the central computer in case they had detected something. Then the central computer would record the images on a hard disk. In addition perhaps we could send a message to a mobile phone, and after hiring internet via satellite, send images to another device.


Now my questions are:


1. Is it possible to perform this installation? Are these elements available on the market so we can integrate the system without having to make a bigger investment? If so, could you give me recommendations on products?


2. Do you think I left something in the air? Do you consider that there is a better alternative than the proposed system?


Greetings and thanks in advance.
 

bp2008

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Running IP cameras off-the-grid can certainly be done. My dad has been doing it at his cabin since 2007, starting with an 800mhz single core netbook as the PC! You don't even use particularly special equipment as long as you have normal AC power in the house and enough power generation and batteries to run everything reliably. IP cameras with built-in batteries are not something I would mess around with. The last I read about connect with wifi to upload video when they detect motion and depending on the activity level they can go through their battery in just a few weeks. You need a proper large battery bank with solar panels, and maybe a wind generator though those things have failed regularly as long as my dad has been using them.

The main concern is how much power capacity can you spare? I have not measured anything newer than a 3 MP Hikvision but one of those typically runs 3 to 6 watts (day vs night with IR on) and an efficient PC will be 10 to about 40 watts depending on how fast it needs to be (I'm talking about Intel NUC here). One tricky part is getting the right voltage to everything. Ideally you have AC power available (via an inverter) so you just plug everything in like you would at home. You may be able to make the cameras (and the network gear, if it is 12v compatible) more efficient if you run them directly off 12 volt DC power. For the PC, a solid state drive may be more efficient than a (2.5 inch) mechanical hard drive, but again the difference will likely be small, like one watt, and an SSD may even be worse if you pick one that is not efficient. A router can be around 5 watts, an efficient network switch around 1 watt, and I'm not sure how much a satellite modem uses but I think it is similar to a normal router.

If you don't have sufficient power to run 20 or 30 watts of computer/camera/network gear, you'll want to upgrade the power systems first.
 

Fastb

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@bp2008,

I'm assembling a system for a Gen'l Contractor who does single family residential remodels. Wiring on the job site is a major drawback (safety, relocating the cameras as project progresses, etc). I'm using Dahua (NVR & cameras).

You mentioned
"IP cameras with built-in batteries are not something I would mess around with. The last I read about connect with wifi to upload video when they detect motion and depending on the activity level they can go through their battery in just a few weeks."

Replacing batteries weekly won't be a problem for this job site system.

Any camera recommendations?

Thanks in advance,
Fastb
 
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Fastb

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@bp2008,

Thanks for the reply. I took a 2nd look into Arlo today. Many drawbacks in general;
Fenderman summarized it nicely;
Arlo is a terrible idea.
1) Motion detection only works when close to the camera, because it relies on PIR only. You also dont get any pretrigger frames.
2) no continuous record.
3) MONTHLY FEE!!! If you want more than 1gb or 7 days of recording you have to pay monthly.
4) Battery replacement, time, cost, Murphy's law-they will die when you need it
5) Cannot display 24/7 on internal monitor
6)Cannot integrate into any other system.
7) wifi is unreliable
8) Its way over priced, it would cost about the same to pay someone to run ethernet.
There are toys and should not be used. Pay someone to run ethernet.

Link for above: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/11987-Outdoor-camera-without-wiring

I need constant recording during the work day. This is for a) capturing accidents, b) deliveries, c) theft by workers.
Arlo provides continuous 24/7 recording, but not for their wireless model.

Recording all day long on the job site (due to MD), and periodically at night, the 4 CR123 batteries might last a month.
Streaming all day long to the cloud will be expensive. The job site is connected to the internet using a cellular modem. The data plan would be prohibitively expensive.

Base station + 5 cams = $650. Inexpensive hardware.
Monthly cloud storage is $15/mo for 100GB.
Monthly cellular data cost? Well, Verizon's M2M pricing is $80/mo for only 10GB. Cloud storage using cellular would cost hundreds $$.

The holy grail: a truly wireless cam that transmits 24/7 to an on-site NVR. It must have MD, and be able to notify the NVR (for push, email, output alarm, etc)
Changing batteries once a week is acceptable.

The GC is hard-over about "no wires"

Thanks for listening!

Fastb
 
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fenderman

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@Fastb, There will never be a battery powered camera that transmits 24/7 unless they seriously improve both battery technology and processor efficiency. Its not going to happen...


You might consider using powerline. Or a combo of powerline and wireless. You have a special case use and it may be your only choice. Since the home is not being lived in, internal interference will be minimal. Also new electrical work makes powerline more reliable.
You can mitigate any wifi/powerline transmission issues by using cameras with SD card storage. You can also supplement this system with a wireless alarm system that also transmits over cellualr like the honeywell lynx. All you need is the panel (you dont have to permanently wall mount it) I believe they even has desk cradles. Then pop a few pir sensors in the house and if you wish door and windows sensors that are mounted with double sided tape. This is easy to move from house to house. Simply call the monitoring company and tell them the new location. You will get instant alerts on your cellphone as well as a call from the monitoring station when the alarm is tripped.
 
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Fastb

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@fenderman,

Thanks for the thoughful reply. And suggesting alternatives to minimize wiring.

Yes, I could use the AC powerline to carry camera video data.
Or use a Wifi camera. Which must be plugged into AC, or have a separate 12V power line.

The GC sees both as using "wires", and so far, isn't acceptable.

The next remodel projects includes taking the multistory home down to studs. New wiring , insulation, sheetrock, etc. Excavating outdoors, regrading, and cement work. Exterior cameras can't string cable along the ground. Cameras on poles, with wires through the air, could interfere with tall trucks or excavation equipment.

Very dynamic environment, constantly changing. I understand why wires could be a headache.

Maybe in 5 years. h/w based image processing, mesh networks (for low rf power), better batteries, improved power mgmt.

Fenderman, is powerline comms disrupted by power tools? Powerline data comm on a job site might have problems that makes WiFi more attractive...

Thanks again,
Fastb
 
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nayr

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The GC sees both as using "wires", and so far, isn't acceptable.
personally I would run from this job, dont walk.. this guy is going to give you nothing but headaches if you take this gig.

When they lay out unreasonable expectations, and wont take advice from a professional.. then they dont need your help, let them figure it out.

if you do keep this gig, you should add a 100% 'dealing with your nonsense' surcharge.. Hire a pro, then tell them how to do their job; dont expect any deals.

ps: power tools can kill both WiFi and powerline networks.. a Welder for example will definitely screw with any nearby electronics.
 
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tangent

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personally I would run from this job, dont walk.. this guy is going to give you nothing but headaches if you take this gig.
I agree. From @Fastb's other threads I agree completely with @nayr's opinion of the GC. Guy is a trainwreck and I can't imagine providing support for something like this. But I'm also thinking it may not be so easy to get away, I have a fleeting suspicion they might be family.

Powerline also has a limited amount of bandwidth that's shared by all devices like a token ring network. Electrical noise will reduce the available bandwidth. Wifi also had serious limitations.

A towable trailer with a mast and cameras or installing wires that the homeowner can use after the cameras come down are really the only practical options. The cameras alone won't be enough to supervise inept employees.

Not to be mean, but @Fastb can please keep detailed discussion about the convoluted demands of a delusional general contractor to one of your threads on the matter.

Now for @pABL012's questions,
there are 2 basic options:
Install wired poe cameras with ethernet, paint where appropriate to make them more discrete. Figure out what your power draw is, design an appropriate system of batteries and solar or wind.

Install a few game cameras with extra large batteries. Pics/video will be recorded locally to an sd card so it's more vulnerable to tampering. You can hook solar to game cams but it makes them much more obvious.
 
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Settys

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That is a pretty good idea and pretty cheap in comparison with other solutions. But I think that you need something more serious in order to have always electricity for everything, not only for the camera. The best idea is to install a fuel generator with a depositable power battery which will be charged by a solar panel. I can suggest you to take a look on http://woodsybond.com/best-12000-watt-portable-generator/ and see more interesting information about this. There is a lot of cool stuff which will really help you.
 
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Fastb

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Mebbe because he's a newbie?
  • Joined one week ago
  • It's only his 2nd post

Fastb
 

CCTVCam

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Even though it's old, I'll add this for completeness - Trail Cams. Battery Powered, images stored locally, activated by pir. Can be mounted and hiden with foliage on the way into the site with one capturing images of people coming down the driveway from the inner end of the drive getting a face pic as they pass by and another pointing towards the house as an over view. You won't get much detail on the over view as the lens is going to be too wide and thus zoomed out. However, provided you can show them entering the drivie then going to the house and casuing damage (I presume this is external given the internal pc suggestion, although cams could be hidden in the house if internal in the roof), then you'll capture what you want. Only caveat is you will have to change the batteries every few days depending on the trial cam model.

You can disguise them with foliage and by sticking branches of the tree your mounting them to on or across the face of the cam (leaving the lens, pir etc free).
 
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tangent

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Mebbe because he's a newbie?
newbie or spam bot?

I will add that while there are certainly significant limitations and recurring costs, I've personally been fairly happy with a moultrie cellular game camera.
 
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